Needs Help: Action Girl

Thank you for sharing. I know it's emphasised that everyone has fun editing, but in here it's a moment of serious business to straighten out important moments. So expect constant fault-hunt.

(original line) Mikasa Ackerman in Attack on Titan is a particularly awesome one. Others include Annie, Ymir, Sasha, Zoe, Petra, and Krista.

• (acrobox) Zero Context. Says nothing about her personality, fighting style, demographic or what her being an action girl adds to the narrative in either substance or style. Also lists a bunch of other names that don't even get the honor of being Awesome. Cut.
  • (NemuruMaeNi) This one's easy to agree on final verdict. It was included to fish for possible various nuances. Will return to bite back. Can cause raised eyebrows on why was the answer such.

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Amanda from Blassreiter, in addition to being the only one of her whole Badass Normal team to survive...with her humanity. Maria also counts later in the series.

• Says nothing about her fighting style, demographic or what her being an action girl adds to the narrative in either substance or style. The bit of personality seems to indicate something along the lines of Survival Mantra or Think Happy Thoughts.
  • Attempts risking Square Peg Round Trope to move example away are evading the current question: "Does the approach work to illustrate Action Girl?" It's not a usual wick-check. Action Girl trope description calls for female badassery, the trope description. And a visible attempt to pander to that demand is present here. A case of condemning troper's contribution for its trying to follow the trope description rather than... guessing your version of requirements?.. There has also been that suggestion to cut everything that doesn't expound on a fight or two. With this the reasoning becomes different in two days period, on one page of forum discussion.

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Maki, AKA Airmaster, is a streetfighting Huge Schoolgirl with an added dash of desperate thrill-seeking. Her Unknown Rival, Sakiyama Kaori is also an Action Girl.

• Place under subtrope Huge Schoolgirl.
  • Evaded the question again. My take is — it's empty epithet flinging, writing a personal take, same as some of the examples in your Tough Chick YKTTW. Examples for Tough Chick that say "She's a Tough Chick" is in-tropers manthra, at the very least redundant and inconcise approach. And then there's not much else.

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Maki of All Rounder Meguru, is a red haired kickboxing Huge Schoolgirl, and clearly an Expy of the above.

• Place under Huge Schoolgirl
  • Same as above. And the idea behind this repeat was the illustration of the fact that this kind of thing is not random. Avoiding to contribute to this problem could be a priority. This case is worsened by violation of 'Remember this is a Wiki'.

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Ryoko and Ikuno in Angel Densetsu, being always around Kitano it's a wonder they still mange to find people trying to bother them.

• I don't know who Kitano is, but this one actually gives some context. Seems that people bother them thinking that they're not action girls and then get whats coming to them. I'm okay with it.
  • What about fights expounding? What about styles, demographic, contribution or what her being an action girl adds to the narrative in either substance or style? It's a review, written into two names dropped.

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Birdy the Mighty: True to the series' name, the eponymous heroine is a Space Federation officer with Herculean strength and nigh invulnerability. Meaning, she's someone whose "bad side" you don't wanna be on... unless your name happens to be "Gomez", or "Crystella Revi".

• At least it talks about her profession and her abilities, and her role in the story as the main character and her title The Mighty. I'm okay with it.
  • One can be an officer by sitting in an office doing paperwork. One can be strong but use that strength for plowing fields and building ships. Would that make one an Action Girl? Doubt it. And certainly wouldn't okay this.

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Bleach has plenty of these: Yoruichi Shihouin is probably the fastest and the most Badass female character in the whole series, being able to lay a smack down on Soifon, Yammy, Aizen, and several Mooks. In fact, she spends a good majority of her screen time kicking ass with hakuda alone.

• I don't know who the other characters are. A good majority of her screentime with Hakuda seems to implay she spends a lot of time with a male ass kicker? I'm okay with it. But you could just put it under Lightning Bruiser to the same effect.
  • Knowledge of who the characters are, is not of any relevance whatsoever (therefore hakuda must be a thing). Even more so, since it's from a trope page, not the works page. There are rules to Convey information, simplify for non-fans. The context has to be meaningful to whomever reads it. All you're allowed to expect from a troper is ability to understand written English and ability to click a wick (not an external link) to other trope-pages/terms-explaining-pages. And no, I'd rather not spread the effects such bad example can have, to other pages.

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The Book Of Life: Maria hits the major beats of the trope in the first 20 seconds of the trailer, the hero falls for her first and has to win her over, she practices fencing, and is feisty.

• Has a specific template for role in the story and personality. Fit under appropriate subtrope currently in YKTTW.
  • Her fencing may be a hobby that never resulted in making her battleworthy. (Feisty is again a hollowly dropped epithet. You say she's feisty? What if you misjudged? What if you just wanted to have an example and tacked the word on? Surely you'd explain it if you could, which means you can't. And since presupposing a good faith is what wiki-editing is about, that means that the work doesn't have anything to conclude feistyness from; the example context self-destructs).

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Captain Kanril Eleya, the First-Person Smartass protagonist of Bait and Switch and related Star Trek Online fanfics, is a ballsy, brassy Bajoran Fiery Redhead with an aggressive command style, a penchant for Crazy Enough to Work Indy Ploys, and a tendency to lead from the front (her security officer noted in "The Headhunt, Part II" that she went through MACO training because she didn't like the idea of putting her crew in any danger she wasn't willing to face herself).

• Feistyness (smart ass, ballsy, brassy, fiery, aggressive) seems to be a recurring pattern. Fit into appropriate subtrope currently in YKTTW
  • The large number of epithets doesn't do a thing to the logic of the previous example in the list. Even the Fiery Redhead trope name drop can be dealt away with like this. Such unfounded things are fine when they complement to fine-tune the substance of the example. Here they're presented to be the substance. Matryoshka-like placing ZCE unto ZCE unto ZCE doesn't make the outer shell any more appealing. Bonus points for begging the "what is MACO training?" question.

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Kitty in the Alien Series has killed aliens with a pen, an iPod and hairspray.

• No context, ZCE. Is killing people these items normal for this series, has no one else done these things, has everyone else done a lot more? Cut.
  • This too may be seen as illustration of the requirements on the badassery front (posed by trope description, or by laconic), which would make it much closer to current standard of perfection than many of the other examples. Here's a trope, here's a rule to describe how example fits this.

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Rachel in Animorphs; her signature battle morph is the grizzly bear. She's a Blood Knight, The Big Guy, and her other passions in life are gymnastics, her boyfriend, and shopping.

• Fits into patterns like Girly Bruiser. Move to subtrope.
  • Evading the question. This entry looks more of like a review again, apparently being based on troper's assessment, not works material. "Battle morph" could be just a name for a power forced on her and never used by her, for implied purpose. This means possible misuse of any tropes mentioned, sub or super.

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In the Fushigi Yuugi meta-universe, out of all the mikos only Takiko aka Genbu no Miko from Fushigi Yuugi Genbukaiden is trained in self-defense, and she's very good at handling herself with a naginata spear. It's a Justified Trope: Takiko is from the Japan of The Roaring Twenties and a Yamato Nadeshiko to boot, so she was required to learn at lwast some basic moves of naginatajutsu as part of her rising.

• This has a lot of context. She's unique among other women in this regard and there's a historical reasoning why this is significant. It's okay. Also overlaps with Naginatas Are Feminine, but you could keep it here.
  • Having abilities and utilizing them is two different things altogether. Maybe she's a pacifist, or at least follows a pacifist line of work. The work could be Slice-of-Life with her as a secondary character with quirky background and peaceful religious rites performed with polearm in hand. She may be vulnerable to violence pressure, and be incurably paralyzed with fear at any hint of the real deal despite all the training she had. Not the actionest girl that would be.

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Yuki Nagato of Haruhi Suzumiya. There's a reason why she's called a Badass Bookworm. She's badass enough that she doesn't need to move a limb to fight. She can open her mouth, and (at least in the anime), chant SQL queries backwards, sped up. At one point, she blocks a gigantic cave cricket's attack without flinching by using a gigantic forcefield. Most of the time, she uses her data manipulation for good, like helping the team win a baseball match in order to prevent the world from ending, and playing a kickass electric guitar solo. And that's not even mentioning the battle with Ryoko Asakura, who is no slouch in that department herself.

• Seems like Bad Ass Bookworm that happens to be female. Move to subtrope.
  • Blindly evading the question. The wording precisely implies her to be presented as something else in addition to being a Badass Bookworm. Much badassery is tried to be recounted. No battles are expounded on. Forcefield is usually a defense-only tactic. Is she a healing wizard? Total conflict of any criteria.

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Fairy Tail: Pretty much every female character is one. Some notable ones, however;

• (Before we go any further, I havent watched Fairy Tail so this is either World of Action Girls or World of Badass with female characters in it, move to subtrope.)
  • Same as some ways above. Forgetting extra knowledge is the proper way to give final evaluation to any example (on trope pages). Common sense. As is a common sense (for me; there is a record of other people objecting to it) NOT ASSIGNING DIFFERENT TYPES OF TROPES IN DIRECT HIERARCHY. A character type trope can not be a supertrope to setting trope. This issue can be explored, if needed, on its own. I'd just note that it's something important and stance on it for me is a good shorthand, an indicator on what to expect from a troper.

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Erza Scarlet, also known as Titania, is one of the strongest members of Fairy Tail and a prominent fighter in every arc.

• But does being a woman in this place and time mean anything, or does she just happen to be a woman. Feels like a ZCE.
  • Just add notice that male characters are part of the action, and suddenly it's as fair game as that 'Example as a Thesis'-ish cruft from the start of new Action Girl description can go (the stuff about "Damsel in Distress? Not her.", "Kicks as much ass as men", etc.).

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Mirajane is usually placid and cts as the Guild's bartender, but when she finds her loved ones in danger, she unleashes her own transformation powers which are said to be comparable to Erza.

• Seems like Beware the Quiet Ones, move to other trope.
  • Evasion again. A pinch less of problems with 'Be specific' rule (which is absolutely not at all enforced at large as I see it), and she appears to be using her considerable powers (indicated by comparing with top fighter character) on-screen with a loud word "unleash". It must mean serious business, really, like, totally, a not baseless statement likes of which have been seen, well, everywhere, but not here. Natch.

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Cana Alberona, the heavy-drinking, card-carrying bad-ass mage who never backs down from a fight, even against stronger opponents. After the Time Skip, she can use Fairy Glitter effectively, making her exceptionally powerful.

• I like 'never backs down from a fight' implies that being an Action Girl is central to her identity. Keep.
  • What if it's pillow fight and word arguments. Fairy Glitter could be some booze spiking stuff that makes her an exceptionally powerfull purse snatcher, unless caught.

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Juvia Lockser's entire body is made of water, and she's capable of creating and manipulating water however she pleases. When it's time to get dangerous, the results can be rather epic.

• This is just Making a Splash or Elemental Embodiment. Move to tropes.
  • Again and again, an answer as if all tropes are contrasting, and one trope disqualifies the applicability of others to the same character.

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Ultear Milkovich of Grimoire Heart starts out as an evil Dark Action Girl, but eventually she turns over a new leaf and loses the "dark" part. However, she certainly doesn't lose a tiny bit of her badassery.

• Seems like Dark Action Girl meets Heel-Face Turn. move to subtropes and other trope.
  • Same as above. And it would be a ZCE there, so an advice to move to other tropes is on par with sweeping dust under the carpet or into the other corner.

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Wendy Marvell is a cute, sweet little 12 year old girl who can mercilessly tear you apart with Wind magic. Did we also happen to mention she's the Sky Dragon Slayer?

• Cute Bruiser and or Pint-Sized Powerhouse. Move to subtrope.
  • Evasion again. The problems worth considering here for me, would be what does "she can" mean? She can, but doesn't? Rhetorical question end is bad, the title is worthless wordmash on par with "YMCA/whatever/MACO training" from Star Trek fic above, too.

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Lisanna can transform parts of her body into those of animals in a form of magic called "Animal Soul." Also, she's not dead like everyone thought, which qualifies her even more now.

• Not dead seems like Made of Iron. I'm sure that animal superpower has a trope but i don't know what its called. Move to other tropes.
  • Evasion. Moving is not the solution.

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Lucy Heartfilia gradually makes the transition from The Chick to full-on action girl with each arc, as she begins to fight alongside her Celestial Spirits. She also begins to rely less on said spirits and more on her agility and whip as the story progresses.

• Gives some context as to why Action Girl is significant to this character. Keep it.
  • It does? Writing "she's an action girl because she's becoming an action girl" is an exemplary exercise in "everyone has a feeling what it is", perhaps. Yet similar cases receive cut proposals.

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Merudy comes from the same guild as Ultear, and has an Absurdly Sharp Blade that can cut through just about anything. She also gets significantly more badass over the Time Skip, and also turns over a new leaf like Ultear.

• No context except has a sword. Cut.
  • But it's pretty much the same as example about Lucy (one line above). Feminine pronoun "she". Bereft of specific illustration or expounds, statement that she increases the badassery/actiongirliness. A cool-trope-to-have namedrop.

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Evergreen of the Raijin Tribe can turn you into stone by looking at you. Holy shit.

• Sounds like some type of Medusa power. Taken for Granite i think. Move to other trope.
  • It would be zero-context there.

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Bisca Moulin may be a more minor character, but she can awesomely kick your ass with freaking magic guns.

• No context except has a gun. Cut.
  • Awesomely freaking magic cut? But it's so badass. :(

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Levy is on one of the most valued teams in Fairy Tail, and was even considered for a S-Class exam.

• How did she contribute to the valued team? No context. Cut.
  • Again, consider how a troper should arrive at the idea of adding what you want. Preferrably not through any direct interaction (surely not through lengthy dialogues/debates) with other tropers.

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Sherry Blendy of the Lamia Scale guild is a Marionette Master who's fully capable of taking charge and leaping into battle with the best of them. This is particularly shown during the Oración Seis arc.

• Seems like Marionette Master and maybe Hot-Blooded or Frontline General. There are more appropriate places for this one. move.
  • To the Frontline General along with the MACO-trained girl from Tough Chick ykttw? Still an evasion of question.

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Laki Olietta, also a minor character, has some awesome Back-to-Back Badasses moments with other members. Said partners she's teamed up with include Max and Gildarts.

• maybe. I'm guess Max and Gildarts are male badasses so it shows she can keep up with them. But it also seems like women keeping up with men on its own is not significant in this series and is never called attention to. It's not particularly notable if its unmotivated. Maybe group the whole thing under World of Action Girls
  • Suddenly you're all-forgiving and playing along with example featherweight assumptions. The two may be cats for all we know.

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Mavis is the founder of the whole Fairy Tail guild. This alone makes her worthy of special mention.

• No context beyond Our Founder. Move to other trope. Potentially lump this with World of Action Girls as a subtrope.
  • What? "Subtrope"? Indented bullet probably.

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Hell, even Carla has her moments, and she's a cat!

• Team Pet ? No context. Cut.
  • Okay. You dog-loving cat-discriminator.

edited 23rd Dec '14 3:13:26 AM by NemuruMaeNi

So you want every example to be an essay? I don't understand what you mean by 'Evading the question.' Example descriptions should go for the trope they fit best. If you would want to keep an example of Action Girl on Action Girl, write the description about the fact that they're an action girl. If ytou write "The woman has amazing water based abilities" thats an example of Making a Splash. Point Blank. Because you only wrote about her elemental powers.

You also took issue with things like the patterns of subtropes. If someone is big and strong and fights, but has girly interests like shopping and fashion, that makes her a Girly Bruiser. I can't prove that if i've never personally read the book or watched the show, but i trust other tropers not to fabricate this. Similarly if someone calls a character feisty, then i trust that and i put it with the other characters called feisty. If someone says this character is a Badass Bookworm, then I want that description under Bad Ass Bookworm.

My criteria for whether or not it would be okay as I did this wick check specifically was 'does being an Action Girl define this character's experiences, their arc, their sense of identity, or their place in history.' If so then keep. An unpacking of my earlier statement 'expound on at least a moment where it was seen as notable.' If it just talks about their superpowers, move to a superpower trope. If it talks about specific patterns of style, dress or personality, and other examples fit that pattern, move to subtrope or create a subtrope for it.

And again because the criteria for what counts for the supertrope is vague as we've all admitted, and I don't pretend to be the end all authority, I stand by my original proposition that most or maybe even all of these get cut and or moved to subtropes that their descriptions indicate more precisely. I don't understand how moving examples is evading...anything?

edited 23rd Dec '14 8:14:01 AM by acrobox

If an example is a ZCE, cut it. We don't need more of those. If it gets added again, the person adding it might add the context as well.

What I wanted was to reach someone who either approves the amended trope description or is in part responsible for it. And then I wanted that someone to take his/her/its best shot at clarifying: what context is (now) expected of the examples. Anything else would depend on the results of such endeavor.

And a table for the other thing

Answering #1		Answering #2		Answering #3	Answering #4	—	Evading
Alice: This watch of mine read 6 o'clock just now, is it the correct time for London time zone?
Bob: Yes, it is.		Bob: No, it's 3:30 in London.		Bob: Sorry, I've no idea.	Bob: Get lost with your stupid questions.	—	Bob: You could use a watch to get home in time before your favorite TV Show starts.

Since almost all examples are ZCE, and all ZCE have to be cut, then almost all examples have to be cut. In other words, each example has to be almost cut. What a surprise that little action followed all the effort.

edited 24th Dec '14 12:26:26 AM by NemuruMaeNi

Probably want to post the cut examples on the discussion page so people can grab and re-add with context.

Shouldn't we just comment the examples out instead of cutting?

Commenting out is a measure for fixing a page. For ZCE wicks deleting it is better.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

And about Fairy Tail, it's a World of Badass with female characters in it. General rule is that if you are a wizard, you're a Badass.

edited 24th Dec '14 4:00:14 AM by SatoshiBakura

"Redefine it into a more specific trope, and correct examples accordingly. (A rename may be necessary in this case.)" gained less than 2:1 votes.

Already explicitly acknowledged somewhere around the post #300.

You couldn't have meant to ask for possible disparaging enabling-the-discord explanations of the fact? (like Appeal to Popularity, Bandwagon Fallacy, or people just wanting to participate without having to think things through)

I cut 5 examples from ActionGirl.Anime (heh, it's not even "Anime and Manga" per se; this keeps getting better and better). Case closed? >_>

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Edited to add: Some three weeks later, no progress. All this was quite enlightening. I think I'll try and fail to make a better trope to perhaps supplant this "everyone so knows what it's about" trope here and that'll be it. Cheers to the third crusade.

edited 13th Jan '15 11:41:30 PM by NemuruMaeNi

NemuruMaeNi's sockpuppet

A YKTTW considers propagation of proper contexting by providing per-trope instructions, and Action Girl has just received some suggestions.

My personal 2 cents:

I think in this day and age, Action Girl should be just an example-less supertrope. Or at least, cut all the examples that are already mentioned on any subtrope pages.

Maybe back in the day Action Girls were rare and by that fact alone unique; nowadays they're so commonplace that most fall under one of the many subtropes.

edited 30th Jun '15 2:05:55 PM by Rjinswand

Just to be clear, is the axing of examples you propose only for the Action Girl page or for all pages?

edited 30th Jun '15 2:24:42 PM by Karxrida

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?

The genre sub-pages of Action Girl. The main page of Action Girl currently doesn't have any examples.

edited 30th Jun '15 2:37:43 PM by Rjinswand

Giving this a nudge, so hopefully we can get the ball rolling. And noticed there are 13k wicks, so I may join in on that later.

edited 23rd Nov '15 9:21:06 PM by Berrenta

she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report

I think we might want to check in with this thread first, since the scope of what they are doing could overwrite the decision of the crowner here.

edited 23rd Nov '15 9:24:51 PM by TotemicHero

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)

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