Fargo

Making this thread because I didn't see one. Who else around here's been watching this?

There is already a thread but it only has one post aswell.

I was interested but I didn't catch any of the episodes so I might catch up later.

Ah. Well seeing as this thread already has more posts, I'll just keep it going.

I'd say the show's definitely worth watching; it retains the spirit and tone of the original movie while creating it's own intricate and intriguing plot, with great performances by all the actors and actresses.

Oh, and Key and Peele are there for some reason.

Yes, I've gotta throw my chips in with this series. It's a great piece of television right now. Perfect mix of black humour and drama. I'd recommend watching it from the start, though. It's a pretty tight narrative.

I actually like it a lot better than the movie. I always maintained that Fargo would make for some good TV, so imagine how giddy I felt when I saw a bumper for it months back. They actually went through with the idea and it turned out pretty darn good.

You know, they still haven't explained the fish though. That's bugging me.

90 minute finale this week! So pumped to see where this'll finish.

This was such a great series! Molly is such a refreshing protagonist, and Billy Bob Thorthnton and Martin Freeman's performances are just chilling.

One thing though- Molly's story about the man who lost his glove- what does that mean? Is it about giving up everything after a loss because you think that what you have left is pointless?

It's about turning a loss into something that can help others. Lester would keep the glove and Malvo would burn it.

Well that's better than how I'd been looking at it. Which is to say I'd been looking at it wrong.

Watched the movie yesterday. Started on the series. Martin Freeman is playing the worst, most inarticulate salesman in history. He's obviously and absolutely not suited for the job. What's he even doing there?

Lester is supposed to be a loser. It makes sense.

He's a super-mega-loser. He couldn't be more of a loser if he tried.

So I watched the show. It's great. There are certain segments of the fandom that really creep me out, though.

Man, those be inevitable. You have a villain, some people are gonna be making excuses for them. You have a cool villain, people'll be done inspired by him.

edited 4th Feb '15 1:46:51 PM by TheHandle

I've just been arguing with some nuts who think that Lester murdering his wife is "justifiable homicide."

Oh, that. Frankly, I can't begrudge him that one. That woman was a low-level Complete Monster. It wasn't "justifiable", but, damn.

I mean, who the fuck goes and dares someone threatening them with a hammer to hit them with it, while telling them that if they don't it's because they aren't manly (read, worthy of existing) enough.

She didn't spend much time on-screen, but I hated, despised, loathed her with a passion for every second of it. I wasn't sorry that she died, I was sorry that Lester had to go through the awful experience of killing her.

It's all very deliberate on part of the creators, transparently so. As far as I'm concerned, it works perfectly.

As for leather pants... I forgave Lester for the first wife's murder, and I was willing to give him a bit of leeway over the thing with his brother, on account of how both of them treated him, which is below all standards for how a spouse and a brother should behave.

But he started losing me after he insisted on renewing contact with Marlvo, and completely lost me the moment he put that orange jumpsuit on the second wife. That's beyond unforgivable. The woman had been nothing but a sweetheart to him from beginning to end.

"Low-Level Complete Monster"? That doesn't make sense. By definition, Complete Monster is a trope that can't be "low level," because it describes an extreme. She and Chaz were just standard Asshole Victim characters. What all did Pearl actually do? She passive-aggressively belittled and insulted him. Hardly something that'd make sense as a justification for murder. In an emotional sense, you can sympathize with Lester because he's been put down, but it's kind of obvious that the stuff he does is part of a downward spiral. Fargo is basically a morality play, both the film and the show.

I mean, I see tons of people who act like Pearl and Chaz were flat-out worse people than Lester, but that doesn't actually make any sense. I mean, let's look at the things they actually do it just comes off as a kind of completely divorced from reality.

Pearl:

• Passive-aggressive
• Belittling
• Insulting
• Nagging

Chaz:

• Arrogant
• Shows a lack of concern about his son's condition
• Illegally owns a firearm
• Insults his brother after his brother drops his prized gun
• Insults his brother after his brother repeatedly lies to him

Lester:

• Murderer
• Accessory to the murder of a police officer
• Obstruction of justice
• Witholds information that could lead to the apprehension of a dangerous criminal
• Framing a person who is completely innocent of the crime
• Destroying his brother's family life
• Putting a gun into the backpack of an autistic kid, thereby guaranteeing that people are going to watch him like a hawk for the rest of his life and making it impossible for him to healthily integrate with the other kids
• Lying again after another meeting with Malvo, again making it harder for the police to stop him
• Using a person who trusts him as a decoy to be killed by a dangerous psychopath, while he tries to get a plane ticket for himself to flee the country
• Trying to evade law enforcement

It's like, people don't have a sense of what is and isn't proportionate.

edited 5th Feb '15 12:49:05 PM by Pannic

They come off as worse than Lester because Lester is, after the first murder and until the timeskip, an abandoned person, an extremely pitiful person, acting out of fear and sorrow and weakness, running away from himself as much as from the police. His actions against his brother come off as a The Count Of Monte Cristo sort of The Dog Bites Back revenge; his brother didn't simply put him down, he abandoned, disowned him. He was ready to leave him to his fate. He had absolutely no-one to turn to.

The wife comes from a position of strength. She beat on his soul, viciously, relentlessly, and with no compassion or sympathy. As far as she was concerned, he was a machine, someone to make money, build status, and repair stuff, and he was defective. However, objectively speaking, she could have done a lot worse, her husband is at least trying his best, and there's no real reason for her brutal treatment of him.

The brother comes from a position of even greater strength. He's strong, he's powerful, he's rich, he's respected. Instead of leveraging his power to help his brother, he treats him very poorly, and, when he's in trouble, abandons him, rather than at least hearing him out. Who knows, if he had, maybe he could have convinced Lester to turn himself in. Or, at least, paid him a good lawyer. Doesn't matter what Lester did; one stands by one's kin, no matter what.

Lester commits his first immoral act in a moment of emotional vulnerability, without premeditation. He commits the rest fighting for his life. The brother and the wife are being assholes for no reason.

Lester was One Crime Leads To Another, but he didn't become an asshole about it until rather later in the game, when he betrayed his second wife, who loved him. The brother and the first wife were assholes from the start, who betrayed and hurt family and kin for no reason.

As for the law, the state, and society at large, and the crimes against them, well, those are abstract, distant entities, and it doesn't have the immediate raw impact of familial misdeeds.

Objectively, you're right, Lester is the worst person. Emotionally, though, that's not a very strong factor in how well we feel for him compared to the rest.

edited 5th Feb '15 1:28:48 PM by TheHandle

Trailer.

The woodpecker trailer is the best. So elegant, so pure.

So, anyone still here? Enjoyed the premiere, looking forward to more. Thanks to some unjudicious Googling, I was spoiled on a couple minor points, mainly Peggy hitting somebody with her car, but now I can move forward in blissful ignorance. (The critics manage to spoil me about the money last season.)

The thing that actually most surprised me? "Children of the Sun". Hadn't listened to that in years.

I'm guessing that whatever survives the fallout of the merger/clash between the Gerhardts and Kansas City will evolve into the Fargo syndicate from last season.

Betcha Peggy did something really bad before she hit that guy, which is the real reason she didn't want to call the cops.

Isn't enough that she did hit him? Especially since it wasn't particularly bad weather.

I thought it was implied she was distracted by those magazines she had open on the seat, but I dunno. Unless she just didn't slow down in time because snowy road.

So what are we thinking of this season so far?

On the one hand, the acting is all very very good, and it certainly seems to be setting up some fireworks down the line. But, idk, don't think the characters this time around have as much depth so far.