Shit's happening over here too.
You remember that referendum that failed due to low turnout, only for Fidesz to treat it as valid anyway due to how 98% of those who bothered to vote having voted in their favor?
Orbán proposed a constitutional amendment forbidding external powers from ordering Hungary to accept immigrants. But since Fidesz no longer has a supermajority in the parliament, they needed help. To that end, Vona asked to meet Orbán to discuss terms for Jobbik's support of the amendment. His condition was that the govt immediately cease selling settlement bonds, which is a fancy name for the govt selling citizenship rights to anyone willing to pay. Fidesz media painted this move as "pitiful" extortion but Orbán agreed and announced that they're going to vote on it.
Except they didn't actually do anything, for which Vona gave them an earful yesterday. To which the Fidesz M Ps responded by calling Jobbik traitors, only for Jobbik's spokesman to respond that it is Fidesz who should explain why is terrorist blood money more important than homeland defense. Jobbik requested that parliament vote on the settlement bond before the amendment vote but Fidesz refused, saying that there's no reason. The amendment vote was today - and fell through because Jobbik collectively abstained from voting alongside the leftist opposition and the three independents voted nay, so it was two yays short. What's more, during the vote, Jobbik displayed a banner stating "The one who lets a terrorist in for money is the traitor!" alongside a Fidesz logo with the party's name written in Arabic-style calligraphy. Subtle, it ain't.
After the vote, Vona and Fidesz' head of fraction Kósa both held press releases.
Vona's opinion:
- This is a political and moral loss for Fidesz.
- It turned out that defending the homeland is merely BS for Fidesz, thieving and booty is what matters.
- Fidesz can't see the severe national security risk and danger of terrorism within the settlement bonds.
- If Fidesz withdraws the bonds, Jobbik is willing to vote the amendment into force within 24 hours.
Kósa's opinion:
- The socialists and Jobbik both lied and fooled the people.
- The country can only count on Fidesz in the fight against the migrant quota.
- Gyurcsány was the most honorable in this matter.
- It's bullshit that terrorists would come in with the bonds. Those who request it are thoroughly background-checked, there's no more thorough check in Hungary today. Walking on the street is more risky. A shark attack has more chance than terrorists coming with the settlement bond.
Let me reiterate: Fidesz are being butthurt that Jobbik backstabbed them after they refused to give assurance that they won't backstab Jobbik. Sore Loser doesn't even begin to describe this shit. ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
edited 8th Nov '16 10:37:00 AM by amitakartok
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
This Is What It Looks Like When Russia Really Wants to Mess With Your Election
The evidence is compelling. The U.S. government has officially pointed to Russia as the culprit in the hacking of the Democratic National Committee, and the FBI suspects that Moscow hacked into Hillary Clinton’s campaign emails. And yet, whatever meddling Russia has been doing in the United States has so far remained subtle enough to leave a shadow of doubt among at least some Americans regarding what is actually taking place.
Not so in the Balkans. Americans looking for a glimpse at what it looks like when the Kremlin really, really wants to mess with an election and its aftermath need only look at recent events in this part of southern Europe.
The Balkan states have become an important soft power target for Moscow, which worries about NATO and European Union encroachment in its near abroad, as well as the presence of more or less successful models of democratic transitions on its doorstep. It therefore seeks to block further NATO expansion there and slow progress toward joining the EU. Failing that, Russia aims to increase its influence within various Balkan states, with a view toward using this to its advantage in the future.
But the region has been inching westward, attracted by the prospect of European standards of living as well as Western freedoms. Many Balkan countries are already in NATO or the EU, or on track to enter. Slovenia, Croatia, Bulgaria, and Romania are all NATO and EU members. Albania is a NATO member and is negotiating for EU accession, as are Serbia, Macedonia, and Montenegro. The latter has also been invited to join NATO; Serbia has not made a decision to apply. Macedonia wants NATO membership but is blocked by Greek objections to its name. The laggard is Kosovo, which will want NATO membership as soon as it gets an army and the EU as soon as it can qualify, as well as Bosnia and Herzegovina, which aims for the EU but has not yet decided on NATO.
Moscow has not given up on the Balkans, however. It relies on Orthodox churches to preach Slavic solidarity, crony deals for oil and gas, rigged privatizations to enrich its favored politicians, and encourages ethnic nationalists — especially in the security forces — to pursue a pro-Russian, pan-Slavic agenda. Brexit, the tottering euro, and an American presidential candidate who sounds like an ethnic nationalist and admires Vladimir Putin have made it easier for Russia and its surrogates to argue that the EU is on its last legs, while Washington is turning in Moscow’s direction.Brexit, the tottering euro, and an American presidential candidate who sounds like an ethnic nationalist and admires Vladimir Putin have made it easier for Russia and its surrogates to argue that the EU is on its last legs, while Washington is turning in Moscow’s direction.
And when Russia feels like all of the above aren’t enough, it interferes in politics. What comes next often isn’t pretty.
Consider Montenegro’s recent elections, for example, where the interference was brazen even by Russian standards. Moscow invested heavily in Oct. 16 vote, hoping that anti-NATO Serb nationalists could finally beat Prime Minister Milo Dukanovic’s multiethnic, pro-NATO coalition, which in one form or another has governed for almost three decades. Moscow financed opposition political parties and demonstrations as well as an anti-Dukanovic media storm. They failed. Dukanovic gained upwards of 40 percent of the popular vote and enough seats in parliament to enable his party to govern in coalition with other pro-NATO forces, including ethnic minority political parties.
But pro-Moscow forces had a backup plan: Serb nationalist agents provocateurs, dressed in police uniforms, planned to use an already announced protest demonstration to fire on the anti-Dukanovic crowd, then turn around and assist the crowd in storming the prime minister’s office, where the fake police would arrest or kill Dukanovic. The plot, hatched in Serbia, was foiled by the Montenegrin police at the last minute. The ringleaders, including a nationalist politician who formerly headed Serbia’s special police, and a Serb who according to Ukrainian sources fought for the Russians in Donbass, were arrested.
Several days later, Serbian Prime Minister Aleksandar Vucic confirmed a foreign hand in this Montenegro scheme, without specifying the country involved. Belgrade, a week thereafter, reportedly expelled several Russians from Serbia who were allegedly involved in the Montenegro plot, precipitating a sudden visit the next day by the head of the Russian Federation’s National Security Council. The Montenegrin Special Prosecutor for Organized Crime confirmed that two Russian nationals are being sought as key organizers of the coup plot.
In other Balkan countries, Moscow has stopped short of facilitating a potential coup, but has not exactly been discreet in its meddling either. Vucic himself fought and won an election last spring on a pro-EU platform, despite the Russians’ best efforts. Moscow had backed the Serbian nationalist opposition, as well as nationalists within Vucic governing coalition. Even post-election, Moscow insisted successfully that Vucic include pro-Russian politicians in his cabinet, including the foreign minister and the minister of energy and mining. Russia’s promised veto of Kosovo’s membership in the United Nations gives it leverage over Belgrade, in addition to strong church, cultural, and business ties.
In Bosnia and Herzegovina, the Russians back Republika Srpska President Milorad Dodik, who governs 49 percent of the country as an autonomous Serb region. This support has come in the form of loans to his financially stretched entity as well as corrupt business deals which make no economic sense but line the pockets of Serb nationalist politicians. Russia has also helped train a Bosnian Serb special police force. Putin has endorsed Dodik’s promise of a referendum on independence in Republika Srpska. Such a referendum would violate the American-sponsored Dayton Accords, which brought the Bosnian War to a fragile end in 1995, and might lead to violence — which could end Bosnia’s EU ambitions and NATO option, to Moscow’s delight.
Russia doesn’t just put a heavy finger on the scales for its favorite Balkan politicians; it also seeks to influence the entire region’s worldview. Russian propagandists like RT and Sputnik News don’t just mount their own media campaigns claiming that the EU is collapsing, America is declining, and China and Russia are on the rise: They also take advantage of cash-strapped Balkan media outlets by making deals to share their content with them for free. The cumulative effect of this could be seen in Macedonia recently, for instance. Throughout Spring 2015, the Macedonian press faithfully echoed the Russian outlets which accused the United States of fomenting riots in response to Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski’s repression of anti-corruption demonstrations at the time.
Why should Americans, preoccupied with their own election and worried about international terrorism, concern themselves with Russian troublemaking in these now-forgotten and out of the way Balkan backwaters?Why should Americans, preoccupied with their own election and worried about international terrorism, concern themselves with Russian troublemaking in these now-forgotten and out of the way Balkan backwaters?
Following the wars of the 1990s, the United States and the European Union embarked on a mostly successful effort to Westernize the Balkans in order to consolidate not only democracy, but also peace, in spite of lingering ethnic hostilities. NATO and EU membership was offered as an incentive to Balkan leaders willing to undertake badly needed political and economic reforms.
This gambit was successful until shortly before the 2008 financial crisis, when European growth faltered and the Balkans — especially the countries not yet members of NATO or the EU — began to backslide on their democratic and economic progress. Even without Moscow’s monkey business, they would still be plagued by slow economic growth, persistently high unemployment, lagging reforms, corruption, growing ethnic tensions, and youth dissatisfaction, as well as alienation and sometimes radicalization of Muslims in Bosnia, Serbia, and Kosovo.
By aggravating all these irritants, Moscow’s efforts are undermining the electoral democracies that today exist in more or less liberal form throughout the region, and threatening to produce renewed instability. Ethnic nationalists, many of whom are willing to act as surrogates for the Russians, are resurgent. Freedom of the press and rule of law are under attack. It is not hard to picture the reemergence of petty autocrats ready to exploit the situation. You can even tell who the potential candidates are — one hint is that they consistently speak out in favor of Donald Trump’s “America First” campaign in the United States.
The Balkans will be way down the list of priorities for the next American president. The Islamic State and al Qaeda; China’s claims in the South China Sea; the wars in Ukraine, Syria, Yemen, Libya, and Afghanistan; North Korea’s nuclear program; and dozens of other problems are far more threatening to U.S. national security. But what America does not need is any further distraction in the Balkans, where two decades of investment have come close to stabilizing a chronically war-prone area that played unhappy roles in World War I, World War II, and the aftermath of the Cold War. It would be better and far less costly to counter Russian efforts there with a renewed preventive effort to enable all the Balkan countries, if they want, to enter NATO and the EU, where they will find themselves far less vulnerable to the Kremlin’s meddling hand.
edited 9th Nov '16 2:39:19 AM by Krieger22
I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
It'll be really really interesting to see how Warsaw will react to this. The Pi S government has seeked to get closer ties with Washington at the expense of the German-Polish relationships. Now they have a to deal with a president who has openly expressed doubt about American military comitment in Europe and who wants to negotiate with Putin (two big no-nos for them). The UK is drifting away from Europe and France is in Eastern Europe with little present, and of course with the threat of MLP as next president. That only leaves Germany, where most of the political parties except for Merkel's CDU are for reapproachment towards Russia. I wonder if we'll suddenly hear kinder words from Warsaw towards Berlin?
Lizard Metabolism
Doesn't seem to be the case. The notion seems to be that Trump will smooth out the relations with Russia and thus avoid dropping World War Three on our heads.
That he expressed the desire to ignore NATO altogether must have been ignored. Of course, in general his win is regarded positively, but I've heard Orban has a similar reaction.
How do lizards fly?
A procrastination in of itself
Trump may not be in charge of foreign policy so it's possible that things will continue as they did under GWB.
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
Orban hears what he wants to hear, but Hungary is way less at risk as Poland is due to its close ties to Austria.
Fidesz' speaker outright says that Trump's victory is hope for the world.
I know I should hate them for being far-right assholes, but those Jobbik bastards certainly know how to make a stand, and with style.
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Oh, this is just great. Sejm rejected an addendum to the law about Territorial Defense that prevented using TD's units against Polish citizens.
Also one of Pi S' members, Beata Mateusiak-Pielucha, said she wants foreigners, atheists and noncatholics to sign a declaration that they know and respect Polish Constitution and values. If not, then they shall be deported. She should be the the one to GTFO since the Constitution guarantees no one can be forced to disclose their ideology or religion.
Ehh... With each passing day I think NotSoBadassLongcoat was right and all of this shit will end up in violence.
Lizard Metabolism
The original wording of that woman said something about Christians and non-Christians, and yet she had included Eastern Orthodoxy on the latter list. Make of that what you will.
Incidentally, tomorrow will be held a ceremony of appointing Jesus Christ the "King of Poland". Such enthronement had been done before, but the Church Gang has earlier (2008-12) said that there's no need for those - I presume it would be a violation of the first Commandment, in a sense.
Of course, now that a bunch of quasi-religious nutters holds the power, they not only went back to the idea, but also got themselves a President for the celebrations. For all it matters, I understand that it's nothing threatening apart from perhaps propaganda for other quasi-religious nutters.
Speaking of religion, it seems that our Environment Minister likes his Bible quotes almost as bad as Jehovah's Witnesses. He referred to a balanced improvement as "making of your own land" which as I understand can be translated to "fuck nature, it's mine to do what I want with it". (for the record, the translation of that quote is different, but I decided to translate it as directly as possible to portray the problem).
To that end, there's been an alarming increase of news about how wolves are just about everywhere, hunting down good children going to Church and tearing apart animals. No doubt it's related to Romania's recent ban of trophy hunting on brown bears, wolves, lynx and wild cats, so now they will plan to double down on hunting these endangered species some more. Clearly we don't have enough Jesus Statues or Cleric Sport Cars yet.
To that end... I have doubts whether there's any real opposition to try and sway the voters away from Pi S, let alone lead a revolt. KOD has proven to be ill-effective, opposition parties are too busy tearing points from each other and there's the commonplace apathy about all this to begin with.
edited 18th Nov '16 11:40:02 AM by FergardStratoavis
How do lizards fly?
Lizard Metabolism
I bring you revolutionary revelations of Polish Ministry of Education's sex ed expert.
- Using the rubber causes breast cancer!
- A woman without "positive seed influence" is prone to sickness
- Teachers' backgrounds should probably be checked if those deviants aren't giving a bad example to children by being, say, divorced or of other religion than Catholic. God forbid if they're of intelligentsia, too.
Other revelations include not including Lech Wałęsa in the newest draft of the history book. You know, the leader of "Solidarność", the man responsible for the fall of Polish communism, our first independent president since Ignacy Mościcki way back in '39?
Other people who aren't included, apparently, include Mieszko I, our literally first historic king (Dobrawa, his wife and the reason he went Christian, is there); a selection of other such kings etc. But they do include various religious (Catholic, of course) people who had a fancy episode in their life before dying or not having more episodes.
Not their first attempt to write Wałęsa out of history, but that first bit is a new record in stupidity and religious idiocy.
How do lizards fly?
Show an affirming flame
Here I'd thought that PiS would at least attempt to be consistent in their nationalism and try to claim Mieszko as one of their own, instead of leaving him out entirely. Silly me for assuming basic competence.
Charlie Stross's cheerful, optimistic predictions for 2017, part one of three.
Lizard Metabolism
So as it's been brought to my attention, today is the 25th anniversary of Radio Maryja, the prime backer of PIS and the face of the rotten Church Gang.
It just so happens, the president himself is attending the anniversary. The president of, so I've been told, secular, ordinary country. The ass-kissing is growing more shameless by the minute.
How do lizards fly?
Lizard Metabolism
Apparently there's a plan in the works to limit media's insight into Sejm's workings, essentially banning journalists from recording what's going on there, period.
It's not going well for PIS, opposition's representatives have parked themselves in the speaking room and are not budging. Incidentally, KOD is planning their marches to start in an about an hour, regarding the whole media thing. Some protesters have parked under Sejm already too.
Word is Kaczyński considers the use of Marshal Guard to manhandle the representatives occupying the rostrum.
EDIT: The hour is 1:30 AM here and we still have droves of protesters blocking the Sejm and the representatives from leaving. Police has been issued. Considering that PIS moved the proceedings to a whole different room and under the guard of Marshal Guard too, we have a whole lot of people unhappy.
Worse, it's a 35th anniversary of the Wujek Mine incident where the communist regime opened fire on protesting workers and killed seven, so this is leaving all the more bitter taste in everybody's mouth. The crowd is blocking the limos from leaving, some opposition members are staying the night in Sejm... it's chaos out there.
Apparently The Guardian and a couple more foreign news media took notice, too.
EDIT EDIT: To summarize, it seems protesters were the aggressors in the end. The police might have roughed one or two up, but otherwise there was no tear gas, no water cannons, nothing particularily scathing on their account; there was however an attack on public TV's journalists, people throwing themselves under PIS cars to stop them, etc.
Of course, this does little to change the fact that PIS first eliminated one of the lawmakers from proceedings because he held the sheet of paper saying "Free Media" (which is how this whole mess started), then proceeded to proceed without opposition (apart from Cookies who are Opposition In Name Only) in a completely different room under Marshal Guard's protection. Journalism proceedings in Sejm are messy to begin with, but barring journalists from entry is not solving anything.
edited 17th Dec '16 7:32:19 AM by FergardStratoavis
How do lizards fly?
Something absolutely fucking hilarious: Orbán recently gave a Christmas interview published in several newspapers. Problem is, in the regional newspaper of his home county, someone logged into the system using the account of the corrector who was on Christmas leave and EDITED THE TEXT AT A STAGE WHERE NO ONE CHECKED ITS CONTENT UNTIL AFTER IT WAS PRINTED AND DISTRIBUTED.
Some gems, with the external additions marked:
The culprit still hasn't been found. Five employees have been fired for negligence and slander, but they sued the publisher right back because there is an executive directive at the publisher that verified material coming from HQ are not to be touched by the editors in any way, it is to be published as-is, no matter what's actually in it. So according to the directive, those five cannot be charged with negligence here because they were explicitly told not to check that material for shit like this - but by firing them, the publisher communicated to the public that they're responsible whereas they (say they) aren't, AKA public slander in addition to unjust firing.
Now, is this actually going to have a negative impact on Orban and his minions?
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Maybe. It certainly sounds like potent fuel for a persecution complex.
Direct all enquiries to Jamie B Good
A sixth individual, the financial executive director, was fired today. A seventh is also resigning out of solidarity, with rumors of several others intending to follow suit.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Can a suit force them to be taken back, or is a payoff the best they can hope for?
Take back? Likely no. Even if they succeed in getting themselves taken back via lawsuit, they'll simply be made to leave through inhospitable working conditions, ie. bullying them into resignation. At least that's what I believe.
Meanwhile, another controversy is centered upon Jobbik. Vona recently wished a Hungarian Jewish community a happy Hanukah, only for the rabbi to rebuff it and tell him to get lost. Vona's response was that they both worship the same God and while he (Vona) isn't a theologist like the rabbi, he's pretty sure God wouldn't want them to spend this time of the year sniping at each other from their respective foxholes all fat and satisfied, but to cooperate. To which Jobbik's Vecsés detachment, one of Jobbik's more radical divisions, cried WTF and declared that they will have no part in this, in response to which Vona declared an ethics investigation against them.
Well... Fidesz actually went and openly said that they want to clean out anti-government media by way of legislation for compulsory asset declarations by all NGOs, aimed at weeding out foreign-funded agents. You know, by responding to any criticism from these organizations about how they're running the country by quote-mining the asset declaration and waving it around as evidence that the organization in question is being paid by an external enemy to undermine the nation.
Considering that Putin does the same thing in Russia and he'll pay Orbán a personal visit soon, it's obvious where they got the idea from.
San Escobar: How Poland’s foreign minister helped create a fake country
“For example, with countries such as Belize or San Escobar,” Poland's senior diplomat added.
There is no country called San Escobar. And on social media, Waszczykowski's flub was soon mocked. Many users suggested that he was thinking of Pablo Escobar, the late Colombian drug lord and subject of the Netflix show “Narcos.”
Soon a Twitter account claiming to represent the “República Popular Democrática de San Escobar,” or the People's Democratic Republic of San Escobar in English, was launched. It offered a vision of San Escobar — complete with flags, maps and photographs to accompany news about the imaginary country.
A Twitter account also claiming to be San Escobar's Ministry of Foreign Affairs offered praise for Poland.
On a Facebook page dedicated to the fake country, San Escobar claimed to have built a statue of Waszczykowski in its central square. The statue is actually located in Skopje, Macedonia, and it portrays Philip of Macedon, an ancient warrior king.
Poland's Foreign Ministry attempted to explain away the mistake, with spokeswoman Joanna Wajda saying that Waszczykowski had been thinking of the Caribbean islands known as St. Kitts and Nevis (or San Cristobal y Nieves in Spanish).
However, the San Escobar Twitter account took this as an affront, tweeting that St. Kitts and Nevis was “interfering with our relations with Poland.” The imaginary country is also claiming to be in a dispute with Facebook over a page on the social network dedicated to El Frente Comunista de San Escobar, an alleged revolutionary force in the country.
The San Escobar faux pas has delighted many Polish critics of Waszczykowski, a member of the right-wing populist Law and Justice party. “It's funny until you realise your only allies left are Belarus, Hungary and an imaginary nation-state,” one Polish critic tweeted.
Whoops.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
Oh, bother.
One of the worst parts about my country's soon-to-be President is that I can't really mock this kind of stupidity anymore.
Yeah, the notion of fake news isn't as funny as it used to be....
edited 5th Nov '16 8:25:56 AM by M84
Disgusted, but not surprised