General Japanese Culture Thread

I've been thinking... Neon Genesis Evangelion deviates from the typical New Neo City examples involving Tokyo by giving actual numbers to the new Tokyos, and for some reasoning skipping the number 1. Apparently the original Tokyo (which is called "Old Tokyo" in-universe) is considered Tokyo-1... and yet Tokyo-2 and -3 are always called "Second/Third New Tokyo" in Japanese, a construction which IMO necessarily implies the existence of a "First New Tokyo". Is there anything in Japanese culture that could shed some light on this oddity?

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Umm IIRC they considered Tokyo's expansion and renaming from Tokyo City in 1943 and subsequent rebuilding as 'New Tokyo 1'.

edited 8th May '16 2:01:21 PM by Memers

All that I can find is that in 1943, the Japanese government merged both Tokyo City (Tokyo-shi) and Tokyo Prefecture (Tokyo-fu) and gave the resulting entity the name "Tokyo Metropolis" (Tokyo-to).

edited 8th May '16 3:05:39 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

...is that what "Tokyo-to" means? I've only ever seen it used by Jet Set Radio but never actually knew what it meant.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

The syllables added to the ends of place names basically identify what they're classified as when it comes to regional administrative definitions.

-ku means "special ward within a larger municipal area", pretty much. So, "Meguro-ku" can be read as "the special ward that takes its name from the older Meguro village/town that was swallowed by the wider Tokyo metropolitan area", even though it officially gets called "Meguro City" in English. It's still in Tokyo, still on the Yamanote Line, still regularly has its sewer system back up because it grew around a small hill in a swamp in a larger delta and all that... But, for pretty much all administrative purposes, you deal with your local offices as if Tokyo was on another island. Well, more or less.

Meguro was never a "city" on its own, as such. And, still isn't. Same can be said of "Tokyo City", strangely enough: the Japanese never really divided their urban zones (which they've been doing for a very long time) in a way most in the West would recognise, but they're using our words with interesting definitions lifted from an interpretation of their own concepts.

edited 8th May '16 5:21:53 PM by Euodiachloris

Actually, ku (区) just means "ward". The only "special wards" in Japan are those of Tokyo Metropolis.

Fun fact: The kanji for to (都) is present in the name of Kyoto, and can also mean "capital (city)" alongside the meaning of "metropolis". Ironically, the first kanji of Kyoto's name also means "capital city", so the name effectively translates to "Capital (City)". In Chinese, the same character also has the simpler meaning of "large city" (which is probably where the "metropolis" sense comes from).

edited 8th May '16 5:32:48 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Well, if I recall, Kyoto was the old pre-shogunate capital. Once the shogunate emerged, the capital bounced back and forth between Kyoto and the city that would eventually become Tokyo (then called Edo), up until Perry-san arrived. (If you get what I'm referencing there, you get a virtual cookie.)

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)

Before Kyoto, it was Nara.

Political shenanigans helped move the court to Kyoto. But, Nara getting tsunamis on a fairly regular basis at one point also contributed.

Mind you, both Kyoto and Yedo couldn't talk, the number of times they burned to the ground. <_<

edited 8th May '16 6:23:50 PM by Euodiachloris

I recently learned all of this!

Can you guess where?

Oh God! Natural light!

Here?

The other Japanese cities were the same, though. Blame it on wood and bamboo being both the only sufficiently plentiful construction materials as well as the one most Japanese people were willing to risk having falling upon their heads whenever one of their frequently occurring earthquakes hits their town/city.

edited 9th May '16 1:42:52 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Actually the capital was nominally Kyoto (originally called Heian) from about the 800s till the late 1800s as it was the site of the Imperial court. However the day to day running of the country and most of the actual political power was held by the Shogun who had their own courts and could move them to different cities such as the Kamakura Shogunate from which the Kamakura Period takes its name. Others, like the Ashikaga shogunate ruled from Kyoto outside the Imperial palace (though given that was during the middle of the Snegoku Jidai I use the term "ruled" very loosely. However when the Tokugawa rose to power they chose to move their court to Edo form which they ruled for quite a while. And since it had become a major city in it's own right, The Meiji Emperor chose to move their from Kyoto after the Meiji Restoration as part of his modernisation reforms.

That "history of japan" video?

It's one thing to make a spectacle. It's another to make a difference.

That's the one.

Oh God! Natural light!

Hey, I did say "if I recall".

Japanese history isn't my strong suite. Although part of the problem is that Japan was pretty much a non-entity on the international stage until the 19th century, so few history books not focused on Japan itself actually cover them outside a basic "hey, Japan's here!" section (other than the failed Mongol invasions, which themselves are usually treated as a footnote).

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)

To be fair, Japan didn't interact a lot with the rest of the world for a lot of its history. Individuals yes, but very little in any sort of systematic way. The Mongol invasions and Toyotomi's invasion of Korea (hardly the most outgoing of nations itself) are really the highlights.

Even their brief period of reaching out to the world with the Red Seal Ships had a large foreign contingent involved.

I don't think Nara's on the coast? I forget, but i think it's fairly inland, like Kyoto.

Nara is inland, yes. Once upon a time it was tradition that the capital be moved every time an emperor died and a new one began his reign.

So I take that none of you guys have any solid ideas on why NGE skips over "New Tokyo-1", huh?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

No cultural significance, it's just the anime. Tokyo-1 was simply Tokyo that got destroyed (underwater now) and then they built two others later on.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele

You're forgetting the latter half of my post here. Why would you have a "Second New Tokyo" and a "Third New Tokyo" if you don't have a "First New Tokyo"?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

The first one was destroyed.

There was a Tokyo, a new Tokyo (Tokyo-2) and a New/Neo Tokyo (Tokyo-3). No cultural significance, just the NGE naming convention.

edited 10th May '16 7:48:34 AM by TerminusEst

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele

Except that Tokyo-2 is also a New Tokyo. The full name is "Daini Shin Toukyou" (Second New Toukyou).

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Perhaps you could ask in the Evangelion thread? This whole line of conversation isn't really related to Japanese culture.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

Thank you.

To actually get back on-topic: Why has the lily flower become associated with female homosexuality, which leads to Yuri Genre?

When I first asked about this here, I explicitly specified that I was asking if there is something in Japanese culture that may be behind this. Judging from the responses so far, it appears that either there is not, or there is but it's something that is obscure to our community here.

As for asking it there... I think I already did a long time ago, and didn't get any satisfying answer. No harm in asking it again, though.

I'd actually like to know that as well.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.