CW's Flash

That I'm really excited.

I love Wally so much.

Got a degree in Emotional trauma via fictional characters aka creative writing. hosting S'mores party in Hell for fellow (evil) writers

Does he have an actor yet?

You fell victim to one of the classic blunders!

Yes Keiynan Lonsdale is playing Wally West.

Batman Ninja more like Batman's Bizarre Adventure

I am so ready for this. can it be october?

Got a degree in Emotional trauma via fictional characters aka creative writing. hosting S'mores party in Hell for fellow (evil) writers

New trailer!

That line is not any different from "the divergent point occurred during the Big Bang", and doesn't explain why both worlds have English or even humans.

My question was made with an unaddressed conditional.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

That line is not any different from "the divergent point occurred during the Big Bang", and doesn't explain why both worlds have English or even humans.

Look:

An alternate timeline is generally a timeline where something different happened. Hence alternate timeline. There is some point in where time diverges, like a river. For instance, in Back to the Future 2, the timeline diverges when Biff Tannen goes back in time and gives his younger self Gray's Sports Almanac, thus ensuring he will be rich and powerful in the present. That's the divergent point. Other divergent points include the Axis winning the war, JFK not being assassinated, and so on.

An alternate universe or Earth, on the other hand, does not appear to have any divergent point. If you took a look at Earth 2, there is no moment in the timeline where things diverge. Everything happened pretty much the same...except things are still different. Instead of Barry Allen as the Flash, it's Jay Garrick. Instead of all the superheroes living in the present day, they all live in 1602 instead or 1872. This is also the domain of the "High School AU," where all the characters are in high school together. No divergent timeline, just an alternate universe.

And if you say that the divergent point is the Big Bang, then you are just being incredibly pedantic.

edited 10th Sep '15 10:00:34 PM by alliterator

The difference is that an alternate timeline is established via time-travel, whereas an alternate world exists as an independent entity. In other words, a different timeline is formed by actions that are taken under our existent rules and continuity. I go back, and I never did that one thing, so I become Wolfy of another timeline. However, in a parallel world, there may not even have been a Wolfy. My parents could have not had children. This is independent, because I did not directly affect it. It is an alternate scenario that has always existed as a possibility. If you go to a restaurant, and you decide to order a pizza over a hamburger, there is a theoretical universe where you ordered the other item.

This is a signature.

Given the description from the link on the last page, Zoom is starting to sound more and more like a Composite Character with Edward Clariss, particularly the part about his being a straight-up Earth 2 villain and his superspeed warping him into something outright inhuman.

In the new trailer, anyone know who the guy at around the fifty second mark is?

Also, the Rogues! Neat.

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

The difference is that an alternate timeline is established via time-travel, whereas an alternate world exists as an independent entity.

Not necessarily, some alternate timelines are merely "What ifs?" "What if this happened instead of this?" But a lot of the time, they are the result of time travel. AUs, on the other hand, are never the result of time travel.

Also, given that dialogue in the beginning I hope Atom Smasher doesn't end up as an Almost Dead Guy.

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

This is the closest post to my actual question. What is the point of saying this is a different timeline instead of a different universe, or vice-versa? Both exist, and both experience the same flow of time. The timeline in the two universes diverge in the moment of decision; leading to further deviations and further alternate worlds. The cat is dead and alive until the box is open and you discover which universe you are in.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Alliterator's description of alternate universes is far more accurate to the actual narrative difference, however.

Though to answer, while situations of the "in one universe you did X, in the other you did Y" are sometimes referred to as alternate universes by the occasional media (like Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths), the concept is more often treated (regardless of name) as more akin to alternate timelines.

The big difference is in how it's presented. An alternate timeline is the way it is because something went differently in that timeline from the "norm" - For Want Of A Nail is always a major aspect of the concept.

An alternate universe is the way it is because things just happen to be different there, without there necessarily needing to be a point of division - even if there is one, things will still be obviously dissimilar given it. Also, an alternate universe needs to be established as a separate realm of existence, while an alternate timeline doesn't have to be and is often directly tied to the "main" timeline in some way.

Inversely, no matter how different it is if a reality is established as being an offshoot of an existing sequence of events then it is still an alternate timeline. Flashpoint, for example, features a world too different to be the result of the change in the timeline that caused it (which is even a plot point, and is given an explanation of sorts) but is still an alternate timeline because no matter what it was still explicitly caused by that time travel.

Earth 2, especially, was created as a place where an old, Golden Age continuity still exists after the franchise started phasing out those characters and their conventions somewhat, not a What Might Have Been for Earth 1 - in universe, while Earth 2 and Earth 1 share some characters the two are rarely treated as being a "what if things happened differently" bit with each other, because they're just too different for that.

edited 10th Sep '15 11:33:57 PM by KnownUnknown

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

This is the closest post to my actual question. What is the point of saying this is a different timeline instead of a different universe, or vice-versa?

What's the point? The point is that they are two different things. Therefore, we refer to one is one thing and the other as something else. What's the point in calling a cat a cat and a dog a dog? Both are domesticated animals, are they not? Why not call both cats?

This ironically appears just after Known Unknown says that stories sometimes use the same concept regardless of name. Meaning your definition is not the definition other storytellers restrict themselves to. ("Are tomatoes fruits or vegetables?" would be more appropriate than cat/dog)

More importantly, I said "given the current theories of subatomic physics?"

I was trying to talk about the intersection of theoretical physics and storytelling, since it seemed like an interesting opportunity. Shrodinger's cat and particles moving backwards through time which means every decision is caused by time-travel.... Apparently it is not an intriguing subject to this audience. [feeling excluded]

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

I meant more along the lines that people use the same name regardless of concept. That is, that people will call something an alternate universe when in practice it's more of an alternate timeline, or vise versa.

Alternate universe, admittedly, does sound cooler.

edited 10th Sep '15 11:45:02 PM by KnownUnknown

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

More importantly, I said "given the current theories of subatomic physics?"

The current theories of subatomic physics don't make any difference because we are not talking about science, we are talking about science fiction. In which we can make up any shit we want to make up.

Storytelling difference wise, alternate timelines tend to have a 'I made a mistake/this alternate version of me is what I could be' element in them usually, or as a way for the characters to see their world from a different lens, ala the Justice Lords in Justice League Unlimited.

Alternate universe tends to be more of a 'this is weird' type or just have interesting people and threats there, ala the Justice League episode set in that Earth 2.

What's the difference between an Alternate Universe and an Alternate Timeline where you don't know what the divergence point is?

Okay, now this becoming supremely pedantic.

Again, the difference is just as narrative as it is in the details. Likewise, the way time and universal mechanics themselves are treated in series is very important.

(though edit "directly tied to the 'main' timeline" to be "a direct branch off of the 'main' timeline," since that's clearer.)

Even if there is a noticeable point of divergence, an alternate universe is still separate and may have characteristics that make the two different even without it (a good example of this is the alternate universe inside the box in Futurama).

Windona hits the nail on the head: typically, an alternate timeline conceptually features "what might have been" and temporal creation as a major aspect, whereas an alternate universe doesn't necessarily and is established as a largely separate plane of existence.

It should also be noted that in this specific case Earth 2 being an alternate timeline would be entirely inconsistent with the way the series already treats its timeline and time travel mechanics (not that that would necessarily stop the writers, and the mechanics aren't entirely consistent already, but with Legends of Tomorrow on the way it's even more unlikely).

edited 11th Sep '15 11:30:59 AM by KnownUnknown

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

Eh, I'll just imagine alternate universes as different trees with alternate timelines being all the branches that spring off each tree.

Look, it's Wibbly Wobbly Earthy Worthy.

That's a good analogy. They are two trees in the same forest, directly adjacent to each other, yet they do not share a root system. Meanwhile, each branch is a separate potential timeline, within those universes.

edited 11th Sep '15 2:28:11 PM by SpaceWolf

This is a signature.

You can even say those trees are the same species!