Music confuses and intimidates me

Having actually written a peer-reviewed research paper (the field was entomology, so a lot of statistics were involved), I can tell you one thing about scientific writing. The goal is not to promote understanding, but to prevent misunderstanding. Yes, there is a difference. For example, if you have a choice between a one-syllable word that conveys the general idea of what you mean, and a four-syllable word that means exactly what you want to say, then you use the four-syllable word how is that even a choice.

That's not to say that scientific writing is right and anyone who doesn't like it is wrong. There's plenty of badly-written papers out there. It's just that even the good scientific writing tends to be dense and hard to read.

I didn't write any of that.

Exactly.

Incidentally, this is what I try to do when I explain my feelings about things, particularly on complicated or controversial subjects. Being precise as possible, to me, is preferable to making blanket statements that do not reflect the emotional and intellectual nuances of my actual opinions. Unfortunately, this can make people's eyes glaze over, provoking them in a completely different way...

I'll hide your name inside a word and paint your eyes with false perception.

So I read this whole thread to make sure I actually had something to say, so y'all better listen!

Everyone who said, "What should you care what other people think?" is exactly right. Musical taste, as with every taste, is personal. My reasoning are a little different, though.

I got my bachelor's degree in Music Education. I've been learning music theory since I was seven. My major instrument is voice, though I can (sort of) play any instrument you hand me. Not to make out that I'm some kind of expert: I know enough to know I'm not. So what do I know? That "taste" doesn't equal "quality".

I took voice lessons at the university level for five years. I sang boatloads of arias. And you know what? I hate arias. I hate opera in general. I think it's horribly treacly and overblown, and if you offered me a free round trip to New York to see Aida, I'd turn you down. (Well, maybe, I mean, it might be worth it for the set and costume design.) As it's been around for a few centuries, there's a lot of high quality opera out there to listen to and enjoy, beautifully written and interesting stuff, stuff I sang because it shows off my voice really well, and I still don't like it, for personal reasons. It just isn't my cup of tea.

The fun thing about music education is that you learn to separate "taste" and "quality", because you learn to pick out quality elements whether or not you like the whole piece. And these quality elements show up in really unexpected places: children's songs with awesome chord structure, or TV soundtracks with mind-boggling rhythms. Ask a vocalist what they think of Weird Al: he is an amazing baritone. Then you can turn up your nose at those elitists, because clearly they have no idea what they're talking about.

It's like G.K Chesterton said: one of the reasons we need education is so that we stop taking educated people so seriously.

I'm glad you made that post. Explained a lot of things I was thinking better than I could have, and it's good to have someone with a bunch of formal education here to talk about the subject.

Insert witty 'n clever quip here.

That is actually a lovely post. Thank you.

I'll hide your name inside a word and paint your eyes with false perception.

Considering that the results are so dense that SciGen is a thing and has been successfully used for over 120 papers and there were human-generated nonsensical papers before that, the rules of scientific writing are not doing a good job.

Certainly, one can fool people by using rhetorics, but it's not really necessary. I think the whole thing started after Franz Mesmer's animal magnetism claims were debunked. Mesmer used a lot of rhetorics, so scientists decided that removing all colorful and exciting language (which makes things EASIER TO READ, you know) will make it impossible to fool people. Things turned out otherwise, though.

edited 8th Jun '14 1:15:42 AM by Muzozavr

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More like the editors are falling asleep at their jobs. The article you linked says that these nonsense papers are quite easy to spot.

I didn't write any of that.

What he said. It's lazy reading comprehension and a desire to look innovative and clever rather than publish good work that has lead to this, not bad paper writing per se.

I'll hide your name inside a word and paint your eyes with false perception.

Hey. I know this thread has long been dead, and I don't even know if you're still around, but I can relate to everything you're saying here. And I'm not just making that up to make you feel better: I have literally been struggling with this exact same problem for quite some time and even made a post about it on this very forum. I feel the exact same way that you do. So exact, in fact, that I don't even think there's anything I can add because I've literally agreed or related to every single post you've made here (although the "bad artists" we each like are different).

I have a little musical knowledge. I understand the concepts of scales, chords, octaves, steps, etc., and can readily identify instruments, tempos, and time signatures. I just can't identify "good". It's very frustrating.

Most people feel very sure what they like is good, and are willing to mock or insult other songs or other people for what they like. Not just some "randos on the internet", but people with knowledge and conviction. It always leaves an awful gut feeling followed by guilt and hopelessness. And I've only seen one other person with a very similar problem. Until now, that is.

Unfortunately, I don't have the answer. I'm still trying to figure it all out as well. In my experience as well, people will respond with "you like what you like". I want to believe it, but it doesn't seem correct. I'm not sure what to do either. It's a strange problem to have. But when I found this thread, I felt a little glimmer of hope. Someone else gets it!

I want you to know that I feel like I relate to you more than anyone else I've found in a long time. I don't know who you are, where you are, or even if you're still around. Maybe you've even solved your problem by now. But whoever you are, ntico, I hope we can get a chance to talk to each other. Maybe we can help each other figure things out.

edited 28th Oct '15 8:00:07 PM by Nintendork64

I don't know if it helps, but I'm a classically-trained soprano (as I mention in a post further up the page) and I hate opera. Can you imagine having a degree in music and disliking this massive chunk of "the classics"? People are like, "Oh, did you know they're doing Madama Butterfly at the Opera House? I'm so excited! We got tickets and everything - do you want to go?" and I'm like, "Uh..."

It isn't just opera. Mozart is worshiped like a god in classical music, and I'm kinda "meh" about him. I like his Requiem, but not much else. Likewise, I'm into choral music, and the big name there is the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, and I cannot stand them. I get why other people love them, but for me it's just... no.

Quality, now: that's a funny thing. There are plenty of people that I would say are not that great from a quality point of view, but I like their work. Quality is unrelated. Really. Please consider the following explanation:

Quality is "having a variety of techniques to choose from and choosing them well." For example: in vocal music, there's this thing called "scooping", where you sing a note, but you don't start on the note. You start lower than the note and then "slide" up to it. For many people, it's the only way they know how to sing. Singing without scooping is hard, especially if you have to jump up to a high note. Part of my training was learning how to not scoop, ever.

But some songs need scooping. It's part of the style. You would not sing blues or gospel without scooping, because that would sound ridiculous. Quality singing, therefore, is choosing where and when you scoop, how far, how quickly, and whether the note winds up in tune or not. Does that make sense?

There are a lot of successful singers out there who cannot sing without scooping. But so what? Their style needs scooping, and they're reasonably good at it, so it works out. High quality? No. Good music? Yes! Does that make sense?

Anyway, if we're going to talk about awful, embarrassing truths, mine is that I have never actually listened to any of the bands you mention in your Reddit post. Seriously, none of them. I don't have a reason, either. So for me, it's more like, "I have no idea what you're talking about, and now you're going to tease me about it! Yay!"

Would you like me to listen to the bands you mention, both "good" and "bad"?

I guess my problem is I don't know what makes something "quality", and I disagree with with it when I do. For example, how am I supposed to know where scooping sounds good or bad without going through every possible combination of notes and asking whether it sounds good or not? I usually think scooping sounds good, but looking online, it's highly frowned upon. Chalk another up to terrible tastes.

It's not just terrible tastes, though, I think it's worse. It's complete disagreement with what objectively makes things good. For example, since I made that Reddit post, I've started to find the entire concept of originality overrated, and realized I treat music as entertainment first, and art second. You could listen to a few of those bands I mentioned on the post, and I highly doubt you'd enjoy any of them.

edited 29th Oct '15 2:28:14 PM by Nintendork64

If you really were innately so innately contrarian that everything that makes music "objectively good" would be anathema to you, my guess is that your tastes would actually be a lot more avant-garde. So you like immediate, emotionally and melodically direct music with slightly rough or quirky vocals. It's not the end of the world. I might not like a whole lot of what you like, but it's not like you're evil or wrong for it, or even that you have "bad taste."

I mean, I do have standards, but to me, Anthony Fantano's definition of "bad taste" as a kind of passive thoughtlessness about what one listens to coupled with a lack of discernment rings far truer to me than any notion of "objective" good and bad, whether or not that definition might flatter my own tastes. I like a lot of stuff that's technically incompetent, melodically basic, poorly recorded, monotonous and/or wilfully dumb or ugly. Some people would call that stuff awful. I say that for me, they're wrong. Not for them, but if they tell me I'm wrong for feeling differently from them, then they are wrong.

Now, if this guilt is something truly crippling for you, then yes, you should talk to a therapist. But I hope that you come to the understanding that you are not a subhuman for liking things a lot of people hate.

edited 29th Oct '15 6:10:40 PM by JHM

I'll hide your name inside a word and paint your eyes with false perception.

Really, if you wanna get technical, you like things that a lot of people like, too.

Honestly, I want to understand your predicament a little bit better, because I can't quite totally fathom why you want so badly to have your opinions and mindset to fall in line with and conform with the opinions and mindset of others.

To make a comparison, it's often said you can tell that someone is cool by how much they actually want to be seen as cool—the less someone cares about such a trivial thing, the more comfortable they are with themselves, and the better they tend to appear to others.

Also, very importantly:

So does the majority of people who listen to music. It's technically an art form, yes, but you know what? Most art forms are also forms of entertainment, and how entertained you are by something is a highly subjective thing. That's what makes art and entertainment such a wonderful thing in the world—no two people will look at a work in the same exact way. No two people will hear a song and like it exactly the same, regardless of its objective qualities.

Now, if those objective qualities are what you're concerned about, e.g. what makes a technically "good" piece of music, maybe you might wanna take some classes about that? And if you walk away from that with the same mindset toward music you currently have, that's fine.

---

I'm gonna try something here. I'm gonna take that Reddit post you made and try to break it down, piece-by-piece, since it seems like no one else has done that, in an attempt to possibly find some sort of breakthrough. I'm gonna ask you a lot of questions here, so be alert for that. Okay? Ready?

Now, first off, what makes you think of these tastes as terrible? Where are you getting this feedback that everything you like is awful?

• Whether random people on Reddit like them or not, the fact remains that all of these artists here that you mentioned are highly popular and influential artists in their own right. The Green Day material that you mentioned may have some backlash from vocal segments of their fanbase (and vocal segments of people who just don't like Green Day for one reason or another), but they're still relatively well-regarded critically, commercially, and etc.
• Avenged Sevenfold I have no major experience with, but I've known tons of people who love A7^note on an unrelated note, A7 is also one of my favorite chords.
• You say you "love Dragonforce, for their melodies and crazy-fast guitar playing." So, their music is pleasing to you and you enjoy their style. What seems to be the issue? Nerds and snobs on the internet are saying "buh, buh, but they are BAD!"? Why do you need validation from these people who you likely will never meet in your entire life and who have no real hold over you at all?

Most of the time when people say you should feel guilty for listening to them, they're saying it as a joke. If it's something they actually believe, they're likely highly insecure people.

But anyway, you love their melodies, lyrics, and sound. What do you love about their melodies, lyrics, and sound? (That's an actual question for which I am expecting a detailed answer, or at least an "I just like it".) Why not embrace what you love about it?

Hey, lemme let you in on a little secret: A lot of those same elitist snobs who you say look down upon you for liking/not liking whatever? A lot of them crap on Nirvana too. Not that that should really matter here, but it goes to show you that even if someone is incredibly influential or highly regarded in critical circles, that doesn't mean that everyone who's "hip" with what's "trendy" and are "cool cats that really jive, mama" are gonna be "down" with it too. (Ignore all that fake "hip" speak if you want, I'm just being a dork with that.)

That's another thing: Just because something was influential in its time, that doesn't mean everyone is gonna love it. Hell, in my life I've met more people who flat out dislike The Beatles than people who are fans of them. People are free to like and dislike things as they please. It's not like we all live in North Korea or something where having the "wrong" opinions will get your ass erased from history.

Why do you feel these lyrics are bad, or cheesy or pretentious or what have you? Why do you feel there is a problem with listening to songs where the lyrics are straightforward about what they're talking about?

You say you consider lyrics to be the least important thing about a song. You find that to be unusual? In my experience, at least, the general public doesn't seem to concern itself with lyrics in songs either. If it did, how could songs like, say, "Gangnam Style" ever chart in a non-Korean-speaking country? Or instrumentals? Or...well, you get my point.

You find some voices aesthetically pleasing to your ears, while others are not. What's the problem here?

The reason that some chord progressions are abused as hell, or that some music is as polished as polished can be, or are just simple and easy to follow? Because people tend to like music like that. Those chord progressions are overused because they have been time-tested to be crowd-pleasers. Simple melodies are easier for people to follow along, understand, and feel the groove of. Polish...well, I mean, if polish isn't a surefire sign of tons of effort put in to try to make it sound good, I don't know what is.

All that I can see about your opinions is that you are a unique person who holds unique views on things. Like every other human being on the planet Earth. Why do you feel the need to justify your opinions? More importantly, if people are gonna judge you solely on your taste in entertainment rather than the content of your character, why do you feel the need to justify your opinions to assholes?

Tastes can help people to bond, sure. But they're far from the only thing. And hell, some of the stuff in your tastes overlap greatly with the tastes of others, so if that's what you're worried about, I think know you may be are overthinking this. I might not like all the stuff that you like, and, chances are, you probably hate a lot of the stuff I like. Does that mean that if I see you on the street I'm gonna come after you with a butcher's knife? Hardly. The worst I might do is some gentle ribbing, but aside from that, I'd hardly shun you for having a difference of opinion. Most of my friends outright hate the stuff I listen to, but they still tolerate me as a person (somehow).

From what I've seen of you around the site, you seem like a decent guy, all things considered. A very thoughtful and introspective person, maybe to the point of extreme overthought at times, but certainly a person who seems incredibly earnest about what he wants to say and, well, what he wants in general. A sensitive person who isn't afraid to show that sensitivity, and a person who wants others to like him for who he is. Would I be correct in guessing all this?

Maybe one thing that might help you is to disengage from music criticism and listening to other people's thoughts on music in general for a little bit, if it affects you so much. A sort of opinion-detox, if you will.

oh wait you actually have considered that...huh, this is awkward

This actually sounds like a legitimate psychological issue that you have here.

Hmm...if you feel that others don't generally have this issue, why do you feel that it's one that should concern you?

• I'm genuinely curious what your therapist said about this. Obviously, if you don't want to share, that's perfectly fine, what happens between you and your therapist is a private affair, but it might help to see where you're coming from here.
• Probably might not help as much asking someone who is actively involved in the creation of music, as an artist is inherently going to have a different mindset from someone who is just a listener.
• You say "fix my tastes"...but why do you feel they are already in need of fixing?

That's all I've got for now. I'm eager to see your response.

Please do note that any questions I asked are sincere pleas for further information and understanding. Nothing here is intended as condescension or mockery, and if it comes off that way, well, I'm terrible with words sometimes. I want to try to help here, but I need you to explain your perspective to me in a way that gets me to understand where you're coming from.

JESUS THIS POST IS WAY TOO LONG

edited 29th Oct '15 10:16:52 PM by Odd1

Insert witty 'n clever quip here.

It's too long, but it was worth it.

Odd1: Long, sure, but I think you did very well.

Nintendork64: I'm also curious why you care so much whether your tastes are like other people's tastes, or whether other people approve of the music you like. Because I know the feeling. I'm a sensitive person. I'm keenly aware of other people's emotions, and struggle with anxiety over what people think of me. A full explanation of what goes on in my head and how I'm learning to deal with it would make for a huge post. But hey, if you want to hear that, I'll post about it.

I would suggest avoiding people who look down on you for your musical tastes. It seems that they're doing you damage, and you may not be doing them any good. (Which is not a thing to feel bad about. People only improve if they want to improve. You can't force them.)

You know, it seems to me that you have a lot of discernment. Given that you have opinions about music, you're clearly paying attention to what's going on, and that puts you above a lot of people out there. And you actually try to listen to music outside your favored genres. That's pretty cool! Most people just passively listen to Top 40 stuff, or claim some genre because they want to identify with certain people. That you actually know what you like - and are honest about it - well, shoot, I wish more people were like that!

"Deep" songs are not better than "fluffy" songs. So sayeth J.S. Bach, composer of the Coffee Cantata, and W.A. Mozart, composer of the piece "Kiss My Ass". "Raw" is not better than "polished": classical music is all about polishing things as far as they'll go. And quality? The Mormon Tabernacle Choir is very high quality. That's what I don't like about them. In my (minority) opinion, they're all "quality" and no soul.

You seem to be someone who puts a lot of thought into things. That's not a fault or a vice: I do it too. Please consider thinking about why all this is such a big deal to you. I suspect there's something else in your head that's causing you pain, and maybe it would help to deal with it.

edited 30th Oct '15 7:48:09 AM by scionofgrace

@Odd1 The fact that two people were willing to put so much effort into their response does make me feel a bit better. I had been holding off replying because there's just so much here, but I feel like I can't put it off any longer. Unfortunately, I'm not in a very good state of mind and don't feel like I can answer a lot right now, but I think the answer to many of these questions might be "I tend to take things to heart too much." I may also be overthinking things, like you said.

The answer that concerned me the most, though, was "This actually sounds like a legitimate psychological issue that you have here." I'm not sure how you got that conclusion from the sentence you read, but I wonder if it's true. Unfortunately, it's really hard to see a therapist right now, due lack of health care.

I know you wanted me to respond to all of these questions, but it's hard to right now because I have other problems that feel so much worse at the present moment. If you can give me a day or two to clear my head, I think I can more easily answer them.

It's okay. Take your time! Anything I write always turns out better if I give it time to percolate in my brain. And it's okay if you don't respond to every question.

Hang in there, man! Deal with the important stuff first, and get back to us when you can.

Holy moly! I had no idea this thread was still around. And it's comforting, in a way, to know I'm not the only one who's worried about this sort of thing.

Fun fact for Nintendork 64: Not only am I the OP of this thread, I'm also the guy on Reddit whose post you linked. As proof, I've updated that post with a special message.

edited 2nd Nov '15 6:17:23 PM by ntico

Oh my god, wow O_O That's a pretty crazy coincidence, then! I wasn't expecting you two to be the same user! And yeah, it is a little comforting to know I'm not the only one either. Sorry if I ended up derailing the thread a little. I don't know what else to add, but I'm glad you're still around!

No problem. If anyone else gets some help and support because of this thread, it will have been worth it. I've got to go to work in a bit, but I'll see if I've got any more to add later.

So apparently you're the only two people on the internet with that problem.

More seriously : do you suffer from some form of social anxiety ? Because it sounds like you do. You seem to think that your maybe-atypical tastes are a problem and should be "fixed", and that "fitting in" is more important than your personal comfort (i.e. listening to what you really like).

I don't think you need to try and find out what makes music "good" or "bad", because IMO there's no answer to that. Different people like different things in music, and there no accounting for taste. Unless you like Justin Bieber.

Take me for instance. I know I like complex instrumental parts and I don't care much for lyrics, to the point that I sometimes think they spoil the instrumentals. As a result, I mostly listen to stuff like Two Steps from Hell and Audiomachine, and movie scores. (I also recently discovered a taste for Dragonforce and Rhapsody, so it's good to stay open-minded). Nobody I know who have heard the music I listen to liked it much. Do I care ? Am I going to listen to more "acceptable" stuff over what I really like ? Hell no. And neither should you. At least you listen to bands most people have heard of !

edited 15th Nov '15 6:34:30 PM by Aetol

Worldbuilding is fun, writing is a chore

I don't have the knowledge base to really say what I like, nor do I know well where to get it. And I'm honestly scared to dislike popular things - "be yourself" is just something popular people say because "themselves" aren't a permanent handicap. It's the worst advice on the face of the earth.

So I get where the OP is coming from.

But it clearly does not seem to improve once you do know your stuff. So worrying about it doesn't really help either. Of course, "don't" is poor advice too, because it's extremely difficult to follow. So I'd say figure out if you think it's worth learning. If you don't think so, don't. If you want to learn, at least it gives you a topic of conversation. But watch out that it doesn't bite you in the ass.

I'm sorry it's been two weeks since I last posted on this thread. I was going to say something like "I forgot about this thread", but I'd rather be honest. I didn't post partly because it felt like a huge task to respond to Odd1's post, and partly because I don't want to think about my taste issue unless it's currently stressing me. But you wanted me to respond to your questions, so I'm doing it.

All over the internet. A large chunk of it is Reddit. People there seem to know music much better than I do.

Popular does not equal good, though. They're more popular to hate than to like, though. And I weight the opinions of those who seem to know about music over those who don't. Even on this very site, the only topics I could find about either Avenged Sevenfold and Dragonforce are mostly just mocking the bands. Green Day seems to be accepted here.

For the melodies, there's something about the chord progressions they use that I love, such as the one in the much-maligned Photograph. For the lyrics, I like the way they're worded and the way they're easy to understand. I suppose that makes them shallow. As for the sound, I don't really have a good explanation for it. I guess I just like the fact that it's hard rock that doesn't sound to raw or harsh.

Where are you finding this? All the feedback I can find for Nirvana is positive, and the professional reviews for the album don't appear to ever go lower than 8/10.

It seems every time someone complains about a song or a lyric being either cheesy or pretentious, I end up liking that lyric. It doesn't help that I found what was once my favorite song on a list of "Ridiculously Overwrought and Pretentious Music Videos".

I do. If there's one thing that everyone seems to praise or deride is the lyrics (If there's a second, it's "genericism"). This tells me that lyrics are the thing people care about the most. J-pop and K-pop seem to be an exception, but I don't see many negative opinions being thrown around for those songs in general.

Same problem I have with the other things: They're not actually good.

I would have thought this, but given that "raw" is unanimously used as praise for rock, that tells me people don't like polished rock.

The problem is, they often aren't just random assholes, they're sometimes people who seem to know a lot about music. I also mentioned earlier that I tend to take things to heart way too much, and I think this question is where that really comes into play. I also want to mention that, for some unknown reason, I had a hard time wrapping my head around this question and answering it.

This doesn't surprise me. I know I can be an overthinker at times, and I've been called out for it in the past.

I suppose so, though I've never thought of myself as particularly earnest.

I mentioned I had considered this, and it's pretty much what I've been doing since then, at least when morbid curiosity doesn't get the best of me. I at least haven't started feeling guilty about any other bands that I like since then, but I can't help feeling that I'm engaging in willful ignorance by blocking out contradictory opinions. I also still find myself worried that the things I listen to that I think are good may not actually be.

This is the sentence that I keep thinking about. I'm curious as to what I said that made you think this. Moreover, I'm wondering if you're on to something.

I don't remember him saying much.

Because fixing is what you do when there's a problem. And I have a problem with my tastes.

Don't worry, nothing came off as condescending in the least bit. I'm actually flattered that you went out of your way so much to try to help. The sheer fact you put so much effort into trying to help actually made me feel a little better.

I also want to mention that this has made me feel a little trapped. I've found myself avoiding listening to music I haven't heard before because I'm so worried that it'll be a bad song/artist that I like. I've pretty much limited myself to listening to music that I both like and know is good, or at least not bad, and I'm scared to find more.

I think that's about it. I don't know what more to say. Thank you very much for you help, though.

I don't really care much about lyrics, and I've spoken with a lot of other music fans who feel the same way. Personally, I listen to a lot of music with non-English lyrics, so I have absolutely no idea what the lyrics mean, and I just can't judge their quality at all. And I can think of quite a few songs that I enjoy even though I dislike the lyrics for some reason or other.

Not exactly. "Raw" = "good" sounds very much like a Rockist assumption. And there's a broad consensus among critics that Rockism is bad, even though Rockist attitudes still linger.

In any case, bands like New Order and The Smiths had a hella polished sound, and they're well-loved and influential for it.

Seem to know. A lot of people can come across more knowledgeable than they are, just by acting very confident. And even critics who objectively do know a lot about music—like Robert Christgau and Piero Scaruffi, who've listened to and written about more albums than I ever will—still make boneheaded mistakes from time to time.

I'm not so sure that anyone really knows anything. There's just so much music that it's practically impossible to be a true Renaissance Man. There just isn't enough time. Either you have broad but shallow knowledge of lots of musicians and genres—or you have deep, thorough knowledge of just a few genres/musicians, and you ignore everything outside your specialty.

That's the important thing to remember. Other people with strong opinions about music on the internet are flailing around in the dark just as much as you are. And even if they do know more about music than they do, that doesn't mean their opinions are more right than yours at all.

I didn't write any of that.

You don't suppose these "music experts" might be faking it? It's disturbingly easy to do. I do it all the time, subconsciously. Facial expressions, word choice, tone of voice - I consider it a bad habit and am trying to stop. Why do I do it in the first place? So people think I'm smart, so they think well of me, to make me feel important and trusted. It's a way to put a wall up and protect myself, because (oh, horrors!) I might be wrong about something.

People who are confident in their knowledge are more likely to be open to differences in opinion and taste.

Polished vs unpolished music is a Cyclic Trope, and it's been cycling for at least 400 years.

I'm still not sure why it matters whether your tastes are "deficient" or not. That doesn't affect who you are, and it certainly has no bearing on your worth as a person.

What makes obscure lyrics better than clear lyrics? In your opinion?