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EchoingSilence Since: Jun, 2013
#3376: Jul 23rd 2015 at 6:40:23 PM

They managed to proof Michael J Caboose team killing with his gun. Though they had to do it through putting a AI in his gun.

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apacalypse. from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apacalypse.
#3377: Jul 23rd 2015 at 8:31:23 PM

Private Snuffy, Pvt/Lance Corporal Smuckatelly, et.c is the one guy who no matter what will somehow fuck up the situation in a way you could never imagine. I don't know what the USAF or Navy calls their "That Guy's". These guys are impossible to avoid your unit will get them consistently and even if you somehow manage to stop their natural disaster like nature for a day or for a few hours they will find a way to fuck up in a way that brings chaos and destruction.

Who watches the watchmen?
AFP Since: Mar, 2010
#3378: Jul 23rd 2015 at 8:39:43 PM

We use "Airman Snuffy" as our hypothetical That Guy.

Incidentally, either the first or one of the first enlisted airmen to receive the Medal of Honor was a guy by the name of Maynard "Snuffy" Smith. By all indications, he really was That Guy.

Let me put it this way: He was late to his own Mo H presentation ceremony because he was on KP duty for skipping a briefing.

TairaMai rollin' on dubs from El Paso Tx Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Mu
rollin' on dubs
#3379: Jul 24th 2015 at 7:48:40 AM

And there will always be a Private Snuffy or Sergeant Tent Peg: The idiot who thinks "Eh, just eyeball it and do this instead", taking a shortcut that costs a lot.

The insurance is:

  • Detailed training manuals that list all the do's and don'ts. It's up to a good command climate to make sure troops do the do's and avoid the don'ts.

  • A "tribal culture" of safety. Modern militaries say "everyone is a safety", sure there are risks to be taken, but most of the troops know that taking risks can kill.

  • And a maintenance program that tracks all equipment, from PDA's to weapons to that Cool Plane, Tank Goodness and Cool Ship. Troops are taught how to fill out paperwork and what to do when things break.

All night at the computer, cuz people ain't that great. I keep to myself so I won't be a case on The First 48
AFP Since: Mar, 2010
#3380: Jul 24th 2015 at 10:31:14 AM

Not to mention, the better trained you are in the right way to do something, the better able you are to wing it on the rare occasion where it is needed without completely borking it all up. The difference between doing this task because it will accomplish this requirement and doing this task because your boss said you had to.

MajorTom Eye'm the cutest! Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Eye'm the cutest!
#3381: Jul 27th 2015 at 6:31:12 PM

Backing up a bit to something that got me thinking. (Though Private Snuffy and L Cpl Smuckatelly will probably fuck these up too...)

Optics! From reflex sights on weapons to NVG's or equivalents to the stuff on your Powered Armor's visor and beyond. What do you think will come about?

Personally I see electronic and smart-linked sights becoming standard issue if not integrated into the weapons themselves. One or more alternatives (magnifying, different filtering such as IR and/or NV capabilities, etc.) being available as well.

Iron sights would be pretty much obsolete.

Likewise I would see these sights being linked to or calculated from by the sight and targeting systems found in Powered Armor. Gives you the ability to point shoot with surprising accuracy compared to what is traditionally thought of.

And that's only a fraction of what I could think of...

"Allah may guide their bullets, but Jesus helps those who aim down the sights."
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apacalypse. from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apacalypse.
#3382: Jul 27th 2015 at 8:09:13 PM

Well a HUD system of some sort with useful indicators like directional guidance, ammo count, breach status, and similar factors. Calculated aim point from equipment that is linked both to the weapon and the suit. I don't think iron sights will completely die out. What if your targeting goes out and you can't get it back? You need a way to aim your weapon so iron sights as a back up is still a good possibility. Though I expect them to be fairly simple instead of detailed equipment. Visors could possibly integrate visual modes including NVG and thermal. Integration of lock on weapons and other similar guided munitions CLU equipment and tied to the HUD is also possible.

There is one element that is being looked into now is display for supporting fire. Basically the system uses an integrated network to know what support is available, what munitions they have, and other pertinent info. The system also helps in laying the strike in target. Using GPS and other data it helps plot the path of a weapon called for and draws a possible foot print for the strike. Think like something you see in a video game.

Who watches the watchmen?
AFP Since: Mar, 2010
#3383: Jul 28th 2015 at 5:40:25 AM

As I understand, night vision goggles already give some of that capability if you use infra-red laser sights. In Generation Kill, Evan Wright mentions an ambush that the Recon Marines drove right into the middle of, with a bunch of gunmen in semi-concealed positions firing at them at close range at night with small arms. The Marines spotted them just a heartbeat too soon, and the ambushers got cut down in seconds. Part of it was that the Marines could see which enemies were already being aimed at so they could pick a more available target.

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apacalypse. from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apacalypse.
#3384: Jul 28th 2015 at 4:13:41 PM

That is just non-visible IR laser sights though.

Who watches the watchmen?
ManInGray from Israel Since: Jul, 2011
#3385: Jul 28th 2015 at 6:03:43 PM

[up]Not if the enemy also has infrared vision.tongue Also, does it allow you to see the beam, or just the dot it illuminates?

Guns might have two electronic sights, one on each side of the barrel, with little motors or artificial muscles to move them around. Aside from having binocular vision, they can focus on the thing projected to be hit after taking gravity, wind etc into account, staying on target rather than just moving with the gun or having to be manually adjusted.

Different cartridges may have identifying markings or chips, so the gun can instantly recognize them and calculate accordingly.

The gun's or suit's computer may be able to measure winds by seeing and recognizing the various things that they move.

MajorTom Eye'm the cutest! Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Eye'm the cutest!
#3386: Jul 28th 2015 at 6:22:42 PM

Well a HUD system of some sort with useful indicators like directional guidance, ammo count, breach status, and similar factors. Calculated aim point from equipment that is linked both to the weapon and the suit. I don't think iron sights will completely die out. What if your targeting goes out and you can't get it back? You need a way to aim your weapon so iron sights as a back up is still a good possibility. Though I expect them to be fairly simple instead of detailed equipment. Visors could possibly integrate visual modes including NVG and thermal. Integration of lock on weapons and other similar guided munitions CLU equipment and tied to the HUD is also possible.

I never said the effect of Sighted Guns Are Low-Tech. If the visor loses power or comes off you could still physically have the sight available. Hell the field manual should tell you actually using the sight is the best option when engaging foes at range. Traditional rifle marksmanship > computerized visor reticules. Concurrently physical reflex/telescopic/digital imaging sights that are linked and shared with the computerized visor reticules > solely depending on the computerized visor reticules.

Me entiende?

I've also been asking myself that part about NVG's and other parts. Would it make better sense to have that be a gun accessory or only a fully integrated component of the suit's visor systems? The accessory route allows you to use it both in and out of armor and it can be linked with the visor.

In either case the visor having its own targeting systems and imaging filters (such as NV) is a likelihood.

There is one element that is being looked into now is display for supporting fire. Basically the system uses an integrated network to know what support is available, what munitions they have, and other pertinent info. The system also helps in laying the strike in target. Using GPS and other data it helps plot the path of a weapon called for and draws a possible foot print for the strike. Think like something you see in a video game.

I had ideas for other things. Like say a member of a squad is the Designated Recon/Scout (or is part of a scout outfit) with greater surveillance/awareness capabilities in his armor compared to other guys. He could in 3D locate, track and relay the positions of enemies to the visors of other nearby troops. A Recon guy like that on overwatch for instance could detect an ambush or flanking attempt and relay it to friendlies even if the boots at street level don't yet see it.

"Allah may guide their bullets, but Jesus helps those who aim down the sights."
EchoingSilence Since: Jun, 2013
#3387: Jul 28th 2015 at 6:27:40 PM

Okay, so Powered Armor, what would you guys want in a suit of Power Armor?

MajorTom Eye'm the cutest! Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Eye'm the cutest!
#3388: Jul 28th 2015 at 6:28:50 PM

Armor.

"Allah may guide their bullets, but Jesus helps those who aim down the sights."
Belisaurius Artisan of Auspicious Artifacts from Big Blue Nowhere Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Artisan of Auspicious Artifacts
AFP Since: Mar, 2010
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apacalypse. from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apacalypse.
#3391: Jul 28th 2015 at 7:45:54 PM

Those small lasers aren't quite powerful enough to truly illuminate. They do reflect off the target but as far as I understand it not brightly enough to be useful. Most target illumination lasers are more powerful allowing laser guided munitions to see them from a longer distance off. Now it should be possible to make said laser sights capable of producing enough illumination for say short ranged laser guided weapons.

Who watches the watchmen?
Flanker66 Dreams of Revenge from 30,000 feet and climbing Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Dreams of Revenge
#3392: Aug 1st 2015 at 4:00:41 AM

Everyone's already said everything that I would've wanted to say with respect to optics... argh!

However, I come bearing gifts a question: what might a riot control vehicle (or RCV) in a multi-species setting be like?

Things to consider...

  • What might be effective against one species may only be marginally effective against another - or worse, it might affect Species A but horribly maim or kill Species B. This might be because of what sort of life the species in question is (like how we're carbon based), how hardy they are, etc.
  • Physical presence. An obviously aggressive vehicle may succeed in deterring a mob. But equally, it might heighten the perceived threat and instigate greater violence. This is leaving aside the potential for the media to latch on to the image of big scary vehicles using water cannons or whatever on protesters. So it's a fine balancing act - do you want a vehicle that is intimidating enough to force a crowd to back down, or do you instead want a more low profile one that keeps the crowd relatively calm?
  • Although a crowd may appear to be "mindless", this is not the case. If the RCV has any weaknesses, chances are excellent that the crowd will try to exploit them. For example, exposed grilles might have flaming liquids poured into them, or a vehicle with insufficient rough terrain capability might be halted with a hasty roadblock. Think of as much as you can and a solution for it - people can be very creative.

I'm interested to see what you can come up with!

edited 1st Aug '15 4:01:31 AM by Flanker66

Locking you up on radar since '09
ManInGray from Israel Since: Jul, 2011
#3393: Aug 1st 2015 at 4:57:41 AM

A flying vehicle, using precise laser turrets to hit specific targets. They can function in various power levels, frequencies and pulsing modes, or as electrolasers, depending on the needs of the moment. Whether the targets would be weapons, lines on the pavement, limbs or brain-containers is a different question.

Other flying vehicles may have arms, to swoop in and collect troublemakers.

edited 1st Aug '15 5:02:01 AM by ManInGray

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apacalypse. from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apacalypse.
#3394: Aug 1st 2015 at 7:06:28 AM

You either need something with numerous weapons, sensors, and the computational ability to use all of its equipment or something modular. Development of a genric or as generic as possible set of tools would be very handy. Modularity if you say have to deal with large groups of a certain species one time and then large groups of another. You would have to be careful to use the right tool at the right time.

edited 1st Aug '15 8:24:37 AM by TuefelHundenIV

Who watches the watchmen?
MajorTom Eye'm the cutest! Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Eye'm the cutest!
#3395: Aug 1st 2015 at 8:05:24 AM

Everyone's already said everything that I would've wanted to say with respect to optics... argh!

What else were you going to say?

"Allah may guide their bullets, but Jesus helps those who aim down the sights."
Flanker66 Dreams of Revenge from 30,000 feet and climbing Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Dreams of Revenge
#3396: Aug 1st 2015 at 8:16:57 AM

Interesting thoughts, Man In Gray and Tuefel!

I kind of wonder if a flying vehicle would be able to get into a city street or something, though - it seems like it'd need to be pretty narrow. Albeit I'm imagining something more like a helicopter or VTOL than a "flying car", so something of that ilk might be better able to fit.

And if you went the multiple weapons route, I wonder how the vehicle would reasonably carry it all? A turret can only hold so much stuff, after all. I suppose one solution might be - as Tuefel said - something like weapons on internal quick release mounts that can be easily swapped out for something else (though obviously the mounts should only be able to be accessed from inside). Extra tools would be carried inside the RCV.

@Major Tom:

Only thing I could think of - in the far, far future - was a scope that measured "real time" conditions (humidity, air temp., wind speed and direction, target size, type and movement, etc.) and automatically moved the recticle to provide the correct lead for the target. It'd be more of a sniper optic than something Pvt. Joe slaps on to his assault rifle.

Locking you up on radar since '09
MajorTom Eye'm the cutest! Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Eye'm the cutest!
#3397: Aug 1st 2015 at 9:01:07 AM

@Major Tom:

Only thing I could think of - in the far, far future - was a scope that measured "real time" conditions (humidity, air temp., wind speed and direction, target size, type and movement, etc.) and automatically moved the recticle to provide the correct lead for the target. It'd be more of a sniper optic than something Pvt. Joe slaps on to his assault rifle.

I had a similar idea for a gameplay feature on some things like that. Certain sniper rifle scopes or various enhancements available would add a ballistic lead tracker that would tell you the shooter where to put the crosshairs to ensure greater probability of hit.

It would also coincidentally be available on anti-aircraft systems.

Does your idea go further?

"Allah may guide their bullets, but Jesus helps those who aim down the sights."
Flanker66 Dreams of Revenge from 30,000 feet and climbing Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Dreams of Revenge
#3398: Aug 1st 2015 at 9:13:19 AM

Well, I figure the same technology might be used on anti-tank systems, complete with a probability of hit and kill (expressed as a percentage). It would be based on known (or predicted) characteristics of the target and prevailing conditions. Therefore you can avoid low probability shots and save ammunition for more opportune moments.

I suppose the same tech could theoretically be scaled to other systems as well, but sniping and anti-tank work are the ones that came to mind.

Locking you up on radar since '09
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apacalypse. from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apacalypse.
#3399: Aug 1st 2015 at 9:55:49 AM

Basically it would be something like the Fire Control Computers found on MBT's today.

Who watches the watchmen?
Flanker66 Dreams of Revenge from 30,000 feet and climbing Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Dreams of Revenge
#3400: Aug 1st 2015 at 10:17:03 AM

Having taken a look at the one on the Abrams, the answer is "pretty much"!

BTW, Tuefel, what do you think of my "quick swap" tool/weapon idea for a RCV? Do you think it'd be workable? I suppose one issue is that it might be difficult to change the tool/weapon in the turret in a high stress situation.

Locking you up on radar since '09

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