Right. Given the high quality of discussion on OTC about other issues, it would be nice to have some Troper input on this thorniest of Middle Eastern issues. Tropers wanting a brief overview of Israel should check out its Useful Notes page, or Israel
and Palestine's country profiles on the BBC.
At the outset, however, I want to make something very clear: This thread will be about sharing and discussing news. Discussions about whether the existence of Israel is justified would be off-topic, as would any extended argument or analysis about the countries' history.
So, let's start off:
At the moment, the two countries, prodded by the United States, are currently attempting to negotiate peace. A previous round of talks collapsed in 2010 after Israel refused to order a halt to settlement building on Palestinian land. US mediators will be present.
The aim of the talks is to end the conflict based on the "two state solution" - where independent Palestinian and Israeli states exist alongside each other. Both sides have expressed cynicism, although the US government has said it is "cautiously optimistic".
Key issues of the talks:
- Jerusalem: The city is holy to both Islam and Judaism. Both Palestine and Israel claim it as their capital. Israel has de facto control over most of it, a situation its Prime Minister has said will persist for "eternity". Some campaigners hope it can become an international city under UN or joint Israeli/Palestinian administration.
- Borders and settlements: The Palestinian Authority claims that the land conquered by Israel in the Six Day War of 1967 (the West Bank and the Gaza Strip) is illegally occupied, and must be vacated by Israel in the event of a future Palestinian state. However, there are over 500,000 Israeli citizens living in settlements across the "Green line". Israel claims that a future Palestinian government would oppress or ethnically cleanse them, whilst many settlers claim that the land is rightfully theirs, as they have an ethno-religious link to it as part of the ancestral homeland of the Jewish people.
- Palestinian refugees: In 1948, around 700,000 Palestinian Arabs left the territory of the new Israeli state. The reasons why are still debated - preferably elsewhere. The Palestinian negotiators wish for them and their descendants to have a right of return to Israel. The Israeli government considers only those who were actually forced away all those years ago to have a legitimate claim (if that). The US government considers them all refugees, to Republican fury.
So you can see why its never been fixed. The religious dimension in particular has a lot of people vexed - asking Muslims or Jews to abandon Jerusalem has been likened to asking Catholics to skip communion.
Still, there's hope. Somewhere. The latest developments in the region:
- Israel has released 26 imprisoned Palestinian prisoners convicted of attacks on Israeli civilians and agreed to release another 78 in the future.
- Israel has OK'ed development of 900 new homes east of the "Green Line" in a controversial move ahead of the talks.
- Hamas is to execute publicly two prisoners in Gaza
- The new Palestinian government will not reunite the feuding Gazan and Transjordanian (West Bank) elements of Hamas and Fatah.
edited 15th Aug '13 2:10:49 PM by Achaemenid
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Not in Britain. If you want to plug your stuff even on the indy networks, there are avenues to do that outside the report segments. 
I think it's mainly Fox. <_<
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
You could sort of see them carefully shying away from some of the facts, though. Like when they went 'it's almost like he doesn't want a two-state solution... I don't know, it's very confusing.' Gee, I wonder what could possibly have given them that idea?
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
Add former President Clinton to the list. Seriously, was the Lewinsky scandal not enough for him?
United Earth
...
... Why? Aren't adult whores enough?
edited 25th Jan '15 10:06:21 AM by TheHandle
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
Epstein provided those too. It's just that they weren't necessarily willing employees.
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
For the record, there is no evidence so far that the ex-Prez had partaken in the depravities of that locale, just that he did visit the place at least once during its time of operation, and apparently onboard the private jet usually used to shuttle the... uh, "clients".
On a more on-topic note... Has the Israeli government given any statements on Ehud Barak's involvement?
edited 25th Jan '15 12:55:12 PM by MarqFJA
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
HGW XX/7
Why would they? It's nothing to do with them, and everything to do with him.
Schild und Schwert der Partei
United Earth
And there's no evidence that I did anything with that High-Class Call Girl the other day, I just entered her domicile after scheduling an appointment and left about an hour and a half later with a silly grin in my face and a light skip in my step. I swear, we just talked!
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
Hey, I never said there's no grounds for him being suspected of doing unwholesome stuff. Mere suspicion isn't enough in a proper justice system, though. "Innocent until proven guilty", you know?
It would give them better rep to announce that they're launching their own investigation into whether he misused the powers and/or influence he had as PM to do those criminal depraved things.
(Avatar by Coffee)
Assad being delusional. Israel being Alqaeda's air force...? Right. Next thing we'll be helping Hizballah. Pff.
He's just trying to play the "You are either with me or with ISIS/Al-Quaeda" trick. Although I find the "Israel as Al-Quaeda's air force" idea funny ... in a "hahahano" sense.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
United Earth
Usually the word-on-the-street goes the other way: ISIS and Al Qaeda are Zionist False Flag Operations run by moles, and Al Baghdadi was trained by Mossad.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
The law in the night
Those rumors are true for anything involving warring factions on the Middle East. Like it or not Israel is the default scapegoat for every Middle East problem.
Hell, I've heard people claim that Assad is a Zionist dog for killing Sunnis and the rockets coming from Gaza strip are from Mossad operatives among the Hamas.
Assad? ZIONIST Boko Haram? MOSSAD Al Quaeda? MOSSAD Hezbollah? MOSSAD Hamas? MOSSAD
Inter arma enim silent leges
United Earth
Never heard those latter two being accused of that.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
HGW XX/7
I wonder if the coalition should discourage or support the rumors that ISIS is a Mossad front? ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
That being true might be just as damaging to them as it not being is...
Indiana Solo
"Usually the word-on-the-street goes the other way: ISIS and Al Qaeda are Zionist False Flag Operations run by moles, and Al Baghdadi was trained by Mossad."
Whatever keeps them shooting at ISIS instead of joining them :/
I'm baaaaaaack
HGW XX/7
The law in the night
Oh I have, it turns out that you can hear a lot of weird things if you pay attention to the comment sections of news websites. Aljazeera English before the comment's section had an overhaul has all kinds of crazy things and commenters posting links "proving" their statements like blogs and Global Research "articles".
Inter arma enim silent leges
United Earth
My dad in a nutshell.
Global Research has a Non-Indicative Name. That's not research. That's the worst kind of yellow journalism.
But, you know, holy shit.
I mean, if Hamas and Hezbollah are Mossad, then what's left? There's Paranoia Fuel, and then there's not being able to breathe.
edited 25th Jan '15 6:02:00 PM by TheHandle
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
HGW XX/7
No Handle - you are the Mossad.
EDIT:
I always thought Global Research's editorial meetings basically look a bit like:
"The US president has visited South Africa to attend the funeral of Nelson Mandela."
"Hmm, what natural resources does South Africa have?"
"Err, diamonds and manganese."
"OK, got it."
Headlines the next day: OBAMA'S SHADOW WAR: THE PLUNDER OF AFRICA'S RIGHTFUL MANGANESE
ARE US DIAMOND INTERESTS FINANCING GENOCIDAL RAPE IN JOHANNESBURG?
WAS OBAMA BEHIND THE SOWETO MASSACRE?
HOW DO WE KEEP THE LIGHTS ON WITHOUT THE KGB?
edited 25th Jan '15 6:10:45 PM by Achaemenid
Schild und Schwert der Partei
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
Reminds me of the German Jews who happily bought Nazi newspapers - being constantly told that you're one of the secret rulers of the world can be very comforting.
What's precedent ever done for us?
The law in the night
It goes like this:
Shia thinks that ISIL and Al-Quaeda are a mossad plot to kill Shias.
The Sunni think that Assad and Hezbollah are Israeli lapdogs because they kill Sunnis.
And a bunch of crazies think that every suicide bombing, terror act and any bombings in general are done by Mossad to discredit Muslims as a whole. Sadly this kind of thought is kinda pervasive among Arab media and populace.
Inter arma enim silent leges
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
It's very popular among people who want to emulate (and are shit facsimiles of) the Arabs as well - these theories are pretty popular on the Malaysian Internet as well. I doubt the anti-Semitic conspiracy theorist Palestine-supporting prime minister helped.
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
Of course, it doesn't helpt that Arabs and/or Muslims have been on the receiving end of a couple of pro-Zionist/pro-Israeli/Western "conspiracies" during the mid-20th century, so they do have legitimate precedent to fall back upon for justifying the more outlandish anti-Israeli/anti-Western conspiracy theories. To quote ConspiracyTheories.Other:
during World War I, where Britain, France and Russia divided up the Ottoman Empire while promising independence to the Arabs and a homeland for the Jews, is the most famous example. There's also Operation Ajax, the Anglo-American plot to overthrow Iran's President Mossadegh in 1953, and an alliance between Britain, France and Israel to prevent Egypt's Gamal Abdel Nasser from nationalizing the Suez Canal in 1956.
edited 26th Jan '15 12:57:34 AM by MarqFJA
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.