Do You Avert Brand Name Takeover?

I created this thread to seek advice, find out about others' approach and to promote discussion:

As my works tend to take place in present day, I find that I often fall into this trope. Every so often, I find myself writing how a character is drinking a Coke, or talking on their iPhone, or Googling something on the internet, or just cruising around on their Harley.

On the one hand, it makes the setting more realistic (since we do indeed talk and think like that). On the other hand, it can start looking like a commercial if one isn't careful.

As such... what are everyone's thoughts on the matter? And in a more general sense, how do you go about the subject of brand names in your writing?

edited 20th Jun '13 10:39:11 PM by peasant

I mostly write science fiction (as in, the kind that isn't set 20 Minutes into the Future), but I've always considered Bland-Name Product to be rather stupid and immersion-breaking, justifiable only in cases where using the real brand would actually require you to pay money.

I just use real brand names. I've occasionally even done research to find an appropriate real brand name to use (particularly when it comes to beer, actually, and more specifically for micro-brews when the characters travel). I find that fake brand names tend to suck me out of a story. I think it's because it forces me to take a second to recognize it. When someone orders a Coke, or Googles on their iPhone, that's familiar - it's just instantly accepted and I can move on. But when someone orders a Black's Cola, or Searchifies on their My Phone, then I need to take that second to say, "Oh, it's Coke, Google and iPhone." It's not long, but it's still just enough to ruin my immersion, and it takes time to get that immersion back.

Using real brands allows people to stay immersed.

X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.

But that only work that way for well known brands. If someone buys a Cuba Cola or a Sugar Cane Cola would you still go "oh, they mean Coca Cola"?

I don't avert it at all. If the setting is contemporary or only 20 Minutes into the Future the characters use real brand names.

They might, however, jolt some people out of immersion as I tend to use the terms we'd use here in New Zealand - "Panadol" instead of "Tylenol" (unless I'm portraying a character from the USA, I'd at least know to use the latter term).

edited 21st Jun '13 2:43:17 AM by Wolf1066

On the flip side, there are workarounds with respect to mentioning brand names. For instance, using "cola" instead of explicitly mentioning "Coke", or "smartphone" instead of "iPhone".

I don't actively try to avoid Brand Name Takeover, but I think there are some situations where generic terms can actually work better, especially if you find your story is starting to sound like a commercial. I guess for me it depends on the characters. Unless they're really conscious about what they're drinking, I'll just refer to soft drinks as 'pop' or 'cola' or 'root beer' or whatever. Unless they're really into cars, most vehicles will probably be generic trucks, vans or cars unless the make and model becomes important for plot reasons. Kids will play actual games on actual systems while less tech-savvy parents will see their children playing 'that robot man on the game station.'

The only place I'd introduce a substitute brand name for a really well known product is if I'm trying to create a parody setting, like The Simpsons.

Nobody wants to be a pawn in the game of life. What they don't realize is the game of life is Minesweeper.

I would say if you are writing in the modern day, use the brands that the actual counterparts in your story would use and have done. Don't worry about sounding like a commercial; people talk that way, and averting the use of brand names can actually make things sound awkward.

One piece of advice however. If you use brand names, make sure to stay neutral as to their quality. Don't use an actual brand name in a story involving, say, product liability...castigating a real company's product in your story can lead to a lawsuit. Also, slamming one product and exalting another will make your story sound like a commercial.

A bit of good-natured ribbing is okay, provided it's clear that the characters are the ones doing it and neither side is "right" in your eyes, but that's as far as you should go.

Example; I'm writing a mystery series, and tech brands (particularly phones, computers and internet devices) feature prominently. My protagonist and her assistant constantly rib each other about their respective brand loyalty (my protagonist likes her iPhone, her Windows machine and Firefox whereas her assistant prefers the Android, runs Linux and uses Chrome). It's a running gag but not much else, no brand's features (good or bad) ever becomes a plot point and no one is shown to be "correct" or "better" in their choice.

But other than that, saying your character drinks Coke, drives an Audi and wears Levi 501s is not product endorsement. I wouldn't worry about it.

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~

I'm always careful not to over hype or villify any real product. The characters may have preferred brands, but that's due to the variation in our species not because any given brand is better than its competitors.

They're choices, people have preferences but at the end of the day they're there for verisimilitude not an author rant about how good/bad the products are.

Two characters wander into a dairy (that's what we call small convenience stores over here) on a sweltering day, one buys a Coke and the other buys a Pepsi, they both drink, they both are cooled and refreshed and they both have enjoyed their favourite caffeinated beverage.

Because this is a story about life in the Post-Cyberpunk world and not about the Cola Wars, then that's all that needs to be said on the matter.

I do avert Good Guns, Bad Guns whenever and wherever possible as I don't believe any product should have connotations that it's "evil".

Likewise I don't have all the antagonists using Brand A product and all the protagonists using Brand B. "He's drinking Pepsi" should not be a shorthand for what side he's on...

"But that only work that way for well known brands. If someone buys a Cuba Cola or a Sugar Cane Cola would you still go "oh, they mean Coca Cola"?"

If the story is already established as using real brand names, then using obscure ones the readers haven't heard of won't spoil the immersion. If other people have already had Cokes and Pepsis, then someone ordering a Cuba Cola isn't going to distract the reader. I've had characters drinking micro-brews; most people have probably never heard of them (I certainly hadn't before Googling for some). But because I've also had people drinking Bud. I've used real brands that people are familiar with. So I don't worry about a brand they haven't heard of being a distraction.

The other thing I would say about real brands vs. fake brands is that using fake brands tends to lead to unrealistic dialogue. No one ever says Coca-Cola; they say Coke. They say Pepsi. You'll even get Pepper for Dr. Pepper, or Dew, for Mountain Dew. But if you're using Fake Cola, the characters need to say "Fake Cola." In real life, they'd say, "Gimme a Fake." But saying that doesn't tell the reader what they just ordered, so they need to say, "Gimme a Fake Cola." A real person has a bowl of Cheerios. A character has to have a bowl of Fakeios cereal. It sounds inauthentic, which also hurts immersion.

Though, obviously, this doesn't apply to brands where the people do use a longer name.

X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.

Or even other real-world brands that have nothing to do with drink. If it's clearly established that brand names are bandied about already, there's no reason to suspect that you're using "Cuba Cola" as a substitute for Coke or Pepsi.

If they're drinking Cokes and Pepsis then someone orders Hell Pizza, then it's pretty obvious they're not avoiding saying "Pizza Hut".

edited 21st Jun '13 6:59:55 PM by Wolf1066

Right. And if someone orders Hell Pizza, readers will actually go, "Wait, is that real? I should check if that's real." And then Hell Pizza's got a new customer . . . if the reader ever visits New Zealand.

X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.

"Hi, I just flew thousands of miles to try out a pizza I read about in a science fiction story..."

I've got something similar in my own writing but it's not brand name but more of band name takeover. Although I do intend for Children of Aggression to be a serious (and hopefully a series of) book(s), I have a habit of naming things after predominantly metal bands, songs, and releases. The standard assault rifle of the space bugs is called a "Hellhammer", a large cruiser ship is the "Dawn Bringer Invictus", commanders are known as "Voivods", there is a religious extremist named "Theurgion Goethia Souma" and even a world called Nocturnus.

However most of these are more obscure references aimed less at the average Metallica/Black Sabbath fan and more of that guy or gal at the local metal show with a patch vest full of bands you never heard of. The sort of fellow possessing rare first edition pressings he out bid everyone else over on eBay and probably is wearing a mixture of spikes, leather, shades and hoodies which when combined with a lack of talking, make them seem a bit... odd.

For me yeah, it is pretty blatant but aimed at a niche audience and meant to be an unashamed love letter to my influences and hobbies. I guess it might end up being a marketing gimmick later but eh, still worth it.

edited 22nd Jun '13 1:28:34 PM by StillbirthMachine

Only Death Is Real

The problem with a "Brand Name Takeover" is that people assume that the phrase "He was diving a Honda and drinking a coke and he has an Ipod" is enough information.

Instead I'd do it like this:

"He was diving his beloved Honda. It was an '87 Accord. Sure the power headlights would act up, the engine would make funny noises and the "gold" paint wasn't as shiny as when it was new, but it was paid for. He sipped a cherry coke, not so much for the flavor than for the caffeine. It's a long drive from Texas to New York. His Iphone was plugging into the stereo with an adapter, it's sleek looks a contrast to the 80's styling of the car's old cassette player and the cobbled together adapter sticking out of the cigarette lighter. He slid a finger over the Iphone, maybe something by Duran Duran, he though..."

edited 22nd Jun '13 9:09:06 AM by TairaMai

All night at the computer, cuz people ain't that great. I keep to myself so I won't be on The First 48

I just avoid brands. Except for some very specific situations, the reader will be just as well-off if not better without brand names.

1) I want to avoid letting readers feel left out if they don't recognise the brands (or songs) I mention.

2) I want to unintendedly giving my characters qualities through the brands they use. (I know brands pretty bad.)

3) I don't want to spend minutes trying to figure out if character A would be a Coke or a Pepsi person, or whatever.

4) I have no interest to study a lot of brands and geography for my only story that's set on Earth... it's lighthearted relationship drama + erotica anyways, no one's going to pat me on the back if I get Tallahassee street names right.

There's also the thing that brand names can get outdated. Products get discontinued and/or plain forgotten, something previously known as X and Y is later most famous for its Q and R qualities, and so on.

There's also The Law of Conservation of Detail. So if my character was swearing at their Mac instead of laptop, I'd feel obligated to make their Mac-user-pro-PC-user-ness somehow relevant.

I know it's hip youngperson(tm) slang to say "brand X" when they mean something specific. There's a joke in NM about "coke" being any softdrink and you need to say "coke-a-cola" if you want an actual Coke product.

Now it can be a quirk of a character, a la Buffy Speak. Alice says "He was driving a silver-y toyota!" Bob asks "Okay, the car, the truck..the minivan? Alice...a 'toyota' could be anything!" later scenes just refer to the vehicle as a car/truck/whatever.

edited 22nd Jun '13 12:36:14 PM by TairaMai

All night at the computer, cuz people ain't that great. I keep to myself so I won't be on The First 48

I quite agree. Brand names are details that need to be part of other details or they'd stick out like dog's balls amongst the rest of the text.

It'd be nothing more than name dropping.

Saying "Marcia got into her Honda" is too bald all by itself, we just have a picture in our heads of a generic Japanese car. Saying that it's an older model Honda Prelude and that she always maintained it lovingly gives us a better idea of her as a person - not rich, looks after what she's got.

She's suddenly quite a different person from the guy who gets the latest model BMW 7-series each year.

Or the brand implies something.

Calling something a "Rolls Royce" or "the Rolls Royce of ____". Or saying "She drives like Yugo" tells us something about the item. But only if followed up with a statement. And this can be played for laughs:

"Bob, your laptop is the Cadillac Escalade of laptops. Overpriced, a little douce-y and your dad paid for it."

edited 22nd Jun '13 3:54:21 PM by TairaMai

All night at the computer, cuz people ain't that great. I keep to myself so I won't be on The First 48

You quite often see that sort of thing in movies - "that thing's the Diet Coke of..."

And you know you've bought a real lemon if it gets referred to as "Caffeine-Free Coke"...

I have two works in production:

1) The less serious one, full with deconstructive parodies of anime/manga tropes. In this, Bland-Name Product is parodied by making almost everything Shoddy Knockoff Product. They also tend to break easily, not functioning properly, etc. 2) The more serious one uses both real brand names alongside of fictional brands, owned by people related to the story or the main organisations. (this has Cyberpunk and Post-Cyberpunk elements)

If you want your work to have some sort of "decade" or relation to real countries. brsnd naming is the way to go.
I mean ya ever heard of Crystal Pepsi? Pepsi Pinas^note Nothing to do with PINGAS, I swear.? Sarsi? Santiba? Chinotto? Rexona? Sure? Degree?The 50's version of skype(i have no idea what, telegram brands?)?
brands vary by country and decade. never mind that I only found one example for decade. *facepalm*

Also, avoid brands if your setting uses names as brands. like "Rozenqueen's weapons" or things like that. just depends on your setting.

edited 26th Jun '13 4:12:32 PM by ShanghaiSlave

Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?

If you mention that a character drinks Cherry Coke, make it a part of the character. Like the "shaken not stirred". Otherwise have the character drink soda, pop or a "coke" if that's the slang from the area.

All night at the computer, cuz people ain't that great. I keep to myself so I won't be on The First 48

I make no mention of real life brands. It helps the works I write are neither close enough to our date to conceive of such things still being around (aka The Future) or are completely fantastical.

"Allah may guide their bullets, but Jesus helps those who aim down the sights."

I parody it with obvious inversions. (Doorways for a computer company.)