Turkish Politics

This thread is dedicated to posting news, information, questions, and informed opinions regarding the recent riots and protests in Turkey.

As this article summarizes: "...What began as a small sit-in to protest against the government's plan to demolish a park in Taksim Square has swelled to the biggest protest movement against Turkey's prime minister since Recep Tayyip Erdogan was elected more than 10 years ago."

And according to this article the government appears not to be willing to back down or compromise.

The reasons may be more complex than appears on the surface. According to this article": "...What started as a small campaign against a local project in Istanbul has rapidly spiralled into an outpouring of national anger over how the Islamist-rooted government treats its citizens, which threatens to tarnish Turkey's reputation as a model for the Muslim region."

In any case, these events appear to have little connection to the Arab Spring.

Please post your links, comments and questions below.

I've sort of been waiting for this. Everyone flaunts the greatness of the Turkish model for all Muslim countries to follow.

They ignore the oppression, of course. And the genocide denial. And the suppression of the Kurds. And censership and silencing of political rivals for "insulting Turkishness." They even have a Culture Police

Freedom House calls them only partly free. Here is a list of reasons to protest:

http://www.freedomhouse.org/country/turkey

I don't want or think this'll become violent, but I hope it changes some stuff. Turkey has to create a good system for the Muslim world, because Iran has a system it'd like to share otherwise...

The most edgy person on the Internet.

I have an aunt and uncle who live in Turkey, they just flew back to the states to go on a vacation while this sort of blows over, but my aunt was posting on facebook talking about it.

I didn't see any protestors with weapons, but I sure saw a lot of pictures of cops pepper spraying people when they shouldn't, though there is always the possibility of additional context to such situations beyond the picture.

Curiously, Iran seems to support the riots, despite the fact that the protestors are mainly secularists who despise them.

edited 2nd Jun '13 9:46:11 PM by amateur55

They probably like the general instability within one of their primary regional rivals.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.

Considering they're both on opposite sides of the Syrian Civil War right now, I'd say thats right.

Are they attempting to invoke Your Approval Fills Me with Shame?

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

A friend of mine who's in the Peace Corps, stationed in Morocco recently said that if the Turkish protesters want to gain legitimacy, they need to stop tweeting/blogging about the fact that Agent Orange is being used on protesters.

Do you guys think this is a legitimate complaint, or just Separated by a Common Language?

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian

Given that there is tear gas being used, it could either be deliberate exaggeration or a case of things being scrambled in translation. Don't know enough details to even make a guess at which it is.

You do have to wonder why they're claiming that a defoliant is being used rather than a more conventional riot control agent.

"Yup. That tasted purple."

Yeah... I don't believe Agent Orange has that many immediate effects on humans anyway. It fucks you (and your future children) royally down the road but its useless as crowd control.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.

Agent Orange, despite the name, is clear. It got its name because it was shipped in barrels with an orange stripe. So the fact that the suspect chemicals are actually orange would seem to cast doubt on this claim.

Schild und Schwert der Partei

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/03/us-turkey-protests-idUSBRE94U0J920130603

And now Erdogan is pulling Godwin's Law, accusing the protestors of "walking arm in arm with terrorists". He's a stubborn one and he isn't doing anything to mollify the situation.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.

Paul Mutter, writing for The Arabist, provides some in-depth analysis:

"...The language of the protests, specifically, those with Internet access, has been that of the global Occupy movement, which according to the Turkish social media researcher Zeynep Tufekci marks a departure from past protests. She notes that protests in this vein are uncommon in Turkey, where most such marches are usually organized by unions and parties...

...Though in the vein of Occupy and Freedom Square, this coordinated but decentralized “Occupy” movement in Istanbul began as a protest against municipal redevelopment and has now turned into a larger one against the AKP - specifically, PM Erdogan and Mayor Topbas, who sees himself as a visionary urban planner...

...Redeveloping Gezi Park is like asking New Yorkers and Londoners to let their respective rezone Central Park and Hyde Park for commercial use, as one protest sign read. The 2012 Turkish documentary “Ekümenopolis: City Without Limits” assesses how Istanbul and the communities around have been reshaped as a metropolis with a burgeoning service economy, increasingly inadequate public services, and the “shopping mall mania.”"

Speaking as De Marquis, I am getting the sense that this protest may be more about the privatization of public spaces and services than about anything else, which, if true, seems to imply that Turkey has reached a point in it's political development that such issues have risen to the forefront. If it really does have more in common with the Occupy Movement that it does with the Arab Spring, that makes it seem that this protest isn't about oppression so much as social equity and justice.

Or anyway that may be how it all started. Now it's about heavy-handed police tactics and the regime's unwillingness to compromise.

"...the protests are now more about the conduct of the state itself, despite the fact that unlike Mubarak or Ben Ali, Erdogan was democratically elected and his party is representative of many devout, middle class voters. The park’s questionable redevelopment is now less as a symbol of AKP brusqueness, it has been superseded by photos of men and women beaten down by water cannons and riot officers..."

Much like the Occupy Movement in the United States. I guess I am somewhat surprised by the Western flavor of these protests, and the fact that they are happening in Turkey.

Yeah... I'm a bit surprised, but I could definitely see why the situations in Turkey is a powder keg waiting to happen. It did make progress, especially economically in recent years, but it does seem to have this problem with political and press freedoms although there's been some improvements on the former (for instance, it didn't rely as much on the military as it had in the past and it seems to be trying to be part of the European community at large), and human rights still leaves room for improvement. The surprise comes from a slight perception that the country is standing relatively firm while straddling two historically-volatile regions, what with Greek turmoil, Russian discontent and the after-effects of the Arab Spring. All I can say is... ouch! So much for any use of the AKP as a model, and what it's doing right now isn't doing any favors and may be bound to set off that keg. I hope that societal disintegration doesn't happen; after all, it's still a bit of a young democracy (well, it's traditionally long been that, but it's long been overseen by the military).

edited 3rd Jun '13 12:53:50 PM by EarlOfSandvich

I now go by Graf von Tirol.

The feeling I get is that these riots will begin to dissipate at some point, leaving Turkeys democratic institutions, for better or for worse, more or less intact.

The riot control agent which had previously been falsely identified as Agent Orange is most likely CR gas.

Tomorrow I'll ask our Turkish guest at university meeting about the riots.

My President is Funny Valentine.

Considering that the founder of modern Turkey, Atatürk, was already trying to westernize the nation, I'm not really that surprised by that. Of course the country has its fair share of conservatives (someone had to vote Erdogan into office after all) but great part of the population identify themselves more to European states to the west, rather than Arabian ones to the east. At least in some aspects and Turkey is fairly free and democratic at least in comparison to many Arabian states, especially before the Arab Spring.

If you have any ideas on questions I could ask my university's guest, please write down here (or by PM, whichever you prefer). I'll make notes and put answers here.

The discussion's topic is "Anti-americanism since 9/11", but due to recent developments in Turkey he will talk about the events too.

My President is Funny Valentine.

I can answer any questions you guys might have as well.

Who is the guest? Where is he from?

While I am curious to know more, lets not derail the thread.

edited 4th Jun '13 8:24:56 AM by demarquis

amateur 55, from which part of Turkey are you from and how bad are things there at the moment?

He is Ph.D (American Studies or related, deducing from the topic) from one of Turkish universities. Not a famous person.

edited 4th Jun '13 8:47:25 AM by CaptainKatsura

My President is Funny Valentine.

@Captain: That's cool. I would be interested to know if the protesters seem to have a single coherent goal in mind. Do most of them want Erdogan to resign?

This is an update from CNN. From the article: "...The editorial board of the Washington Post said Erdogan "is offering unfortunate proof that it is possible to be both elected and authoritarian.""

Much like some of us here...

edited 4th Jun '13 8:59:31 AM by demarquis