Since we've gotten told to stop talking generally about religion twice in the Homosexuality and Religion thread and were told that, if we want to talk generally about religion, we need to make a new thread, I have made a new thread.
Full disclosure: I am an agnostic atheist and anti-theist, but I'm very interested in theology and religion.
Mod Edit: All right, there are a couple of ground rules here:
- This is not a thread for mindless bashing of religion or of atheism/agnosticism etc. All view points are welcome here. Let's have a civil debate.
- Religion is a volatile subject. Please don't post here if you can't manage a civil discussion with viewpoints you disagree with. There will be no tolerance for people who can't keep the tone light hearted.
- There is no one true answer for this thread. Don't try to force out opposing voices.
edited 9th Feb '14 1:01:31 PM by Madrugada
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
Avoid intellect, logic when it comes to Islam, Perak mufti tells Malaysian Cabinet
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You just can't make some things up.
I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
United Earth
Smart of him. That path only leads to disintegration of dogma and replacement of public faith with personal spirituality at best.
Djinns do worship God. They have free will, so not all of them do. Some are nice, some are trolls, all are weird, alien, and inhuman.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
But can a human and Djinn couple? Any mythology on that?
Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
Loads, mate: loads. :/
United Earth
Unheard of, improbable, but God is Wise and Mighty.
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The thing is, djinn and humans are made of different substances and live on different "layers of reality". It would be difficult for them to meet each other in the first place, and those who can interact with the other side tend to be the wise men who would know better than to sate their carnal desires on other folk.
((At least that's what I was taught and that's what I'm gonna parrot.))
"..."
Yeah. But, none of that has stopped centuries of fanfic. 
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Well, I take those as seriously as I take Divine Comedy or Paradise Lost - fun to give your OC a bit of a context, but not really useful in serious discussion.
"..."
Djinns don't really make sense on one fundamental point.
If you actually know what fire is (an oxidisation reaction that generates heat, and breaks fuel into water and carbon dioxide), and how humans work (an oxidisation reaction that generates heat, and breaks fuel into water and carbon dioxide) , it's becomes pretty clear that we are the ones effectively made of smokeless fire.
So if humans are really Djinn, where are these mudmen we were supposed to bow to?
All hail our computer overlords?
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
edited 4th Aug '15 6:34:13 AM by MarqFJA
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Wait, if the devil has magic independent of Allah, what's stopping someone having magic independent of either?
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The premise is fundamentally flawed, though, because it assumes that Iblis has "magic" independent of the God.
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Who Am I?
Wow, that sounds just like a party game I use in my psych class to demonstrate communication noise.
What I'm getting from this is that people who believe that divination is accomplished by a giant totem pole of devils playing Chinese whispers had the gall to call the trinity nonsensical.
A nice butterfly
Here is the point I am trying to make. It is not about my knowledgeable and irreproachable knowledge of Islam but rather about how difficult it is to comprehend the different theologies.
Just like it is hard for a muslim to understand the concept of the Trinity (Is it a divine menage-a-trois, or more like a divine three-headed mask?), so is it hard for someone with a catholic upbringing to understand the Djinn (So god created humans AND magic humans because reasons? And they also fuck each other depending on whom you ask?)
The only similarities I can think we all agree upon here is that menage a trois or possiility thereof seem to be prevalent across abrahamic religions, specially if you add that the Jewish have Adam, Eve, and Lillith.
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Immanentizing the eschaton
I think the real theological question here is: what colour are the djinn? Are they blue like the one from Aladdin?
A nice butterfly
i like the ifrits myself. They're a subspecies of Djinn.
"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur
One just might
As no humans had ever saw all types of jin, they could be any colour. Their true forms varies widely, it is not even humanoid.
If a chicken crosses the road and nobody else is around to see it, does the road move beneath the chicken instead?
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
Yeah, they're all Voluntary Shapeshifters alright. Apparently they have a strong tendency for all-black coloration when taking animal form (the more actively-malicious-on-the-drop-of-a-hat djinn, at least). This is why some hadiths caution us against messing with all-black cats and dogs (apparently the most common forms of animal that djinn tend to take); you never know when one of them is no mere animal but a demonic monstrosity instead.
Not to mention the whole animal cruelty thing, of course.
edited 4th Aug '15 8:48:52 AM by MarqFJA
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
One just might
They can't divine the future either, hence the warning against diviners, all of them lie even when they are right.
If a chicken crosses the road and nobody else is around to see it, does the road move beneath the chicken instead?
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
I did say that at best they only manage to get a tiny bit of truth that they mix with a huge load of lies, right?
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Immanentizing the eschaton
Idle thought: too bad we don't actually have a piece of Jesus' foreskin, 'cause I bet God's DNA would be pretty wild to look at.
Here is where theological interpretation vs historical interpretation come into play.
It is easier to understand and explain the trinity as a concept that tries to unite the abrahamic concepts of monotheism with the several different philosophical currents that afflicted the regions of byzantium and the region of rome (nestorianism vs the more classical interpretations of the papacy)
And it is easier to understand the Djinn as the interpretation that allows the several tribal religions that Mohammed united and consolidate them into one.
but theologically? both are silly.
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes