The Scrappy Cleanup

Just call him in here. Just because a Mod/Admin didn't add it doesn't mean it isn't a consensus. What we should look for is the consensus of this decision.

I do agree it's not the best ruling, but it may be he just changed it because he was told to by a Mod/Admin after a discussion.

I messaged them 5 days ago. What happens if they don't ever respond?

edited 3rd Dec '16 12:39:37 PM by GhostHouse

To examples I question from TheScrappy.Pokemon:

• Pokémon: Zoroark: Master of Illusions has Big Bad Grings Kodai. He is widely despised amongst fans, but not just because he is a horrible person, which he certainly is but also because he just doesn't make an enjoyable villain to watch. He lacks a personality and anything "cool" about him, has almost no depth beyond "ruthless executive", and him strangling Celebi and electrocuting a baby Pokemon with no restraint at all are often considered to be far too mean-spirited for the Pokemon franchise. The only thing the audience enjoyed about him was his demise, and even some people felt he deserved much worse.
• Gigi, White's star Tepig actress from the B/W arc, is quickly gaining universal hatred as she ditched White for N, allowing White to fall off of the Ferris Wheel and resulting in her becoming a barely conscious, sobbing wreck below.

Grings, it's the first I've heard of him having a hatedom beyond the large amount that was intended, and most other human villains are blander, and his movie was well received for the added drama. Gigi's entry is horribly outdated, ignores that some found the concept of a Pokémon leaving there trainer for being mistreated (White was trying to force her into a role she was unintended in) interesting, and one objectionable deed (which they ultimately reconciled over) seems insufficient for scrappydom. Thought?

edited 6th Dec '16 1:07:48 PM by Ferot_Dreadnaught

From what you're saying, it doesn't really look like these examples really belong there.

Out of note, Alain was added again in Pokémon.

I removed the entry with an edit note telling them that they have to bring the character up in this thread. Seems like they thought bringing it up for discussion in that page's discussion page was enough, and they didn't bother waiting for any replies before assuming they've "made enough of a point."

If I need to come here to add Alain to the scrappy page, then so be it. He should be in the scrappy page. If a character's action gets the fandom to react by disliking TV Tokyo's preview video for the next episode with 60,000 votes, I think that's more than a certification. If it isn't, I'll bring up that the backlash went on for weeks.

If you want to run the argument that he's a base breaker at best, then I argue that Max is as well. There's also another rule in place that female travel companions are off limits because of said base breaker rule, so why doesn't that rule apply to the male companions too? I mean, I know he has more fans than Tracey does.

"Oh but Max was so hated in his day."

Well, Alain is so hated today!

But that wouldn't be a good standard to go by because I know there are Paul fans who could make the same argument that why his character shouldn't be there, but if he is on there, then Alain has to be. Alain's backlash is microscopic compared to Paul, and Paul lost to Ash!

Is the defense "Oh well, people liked him at one time". So what? Trip started to grow a fanbase after he met Alder and his backstory became a bit focused. Does Trip's growing like offset his previous hate? I don't think so or he would've been taken off. So, Alain with his growing hate among the fandom, should be placed on the scrappy page and his past reception be irrelevant.

I've also seen that the refusal to add him on there is because of one event. If that's the case then Cameron shouldn't be on this list. Had Ash beat Cameron and went on to lose to Virgil or someone else, then Cameron wouldn't be on this list. You might reply "Oh well Cameron is an idiot so people hated him for that", well I can rebuttal that Alain is nothing short of a plot armored, Stoic, rule of cool, Gary Stu. He compares to most of the scrappies that have been apparently approved to be or stay on there.

Alain has more than earned his spot on the wall of shame along the Scrappy page.

Looks like Tracy, Max, Tobias, Trip, Paul, Cameron and Virgil has been deleted by raidpirate9 in TheScrappy.Pokemon which I assume did it out rage that Alain is not a scrappy. Should they be readded back with a warning if anyone tries to delete them again, or are they controversial enough that they won't get readded. Also the entire reason I added a blacklist for specific candidates isn't because they are a Base-Breaking Character but because of the constant edit wars regarding their statuses whether they are scrappies or not.

edited 14th Dec '16 8:37:44 PM by Loekman3

Were those characters ever brought up in this thread? If not, might be a good idea to look them over now that Scrappies need to be approved of in this thread.

The characters I deleted were copy/pasted from the YMMV page before Pokemon got its own scrappy page, so every entry there is likely not on this forum.

Calvin's parents just got added as Scrappies at Calvin and Hobbes and I'm pretty sure it's wrong, as Media Guy explained on the relevant ATT query. What does the thread think?

Remove them if somebody hasn't already done so.

nuked

Can a character whose sole appearance is a despicable moment actually be called a scrappy? Take TheScrappy.Pokemon for example like how that one Samurai hypocritically blames Ash for his own mistakes but is a scrappy because we're supposed to agree with him or Tobias whose only role is to deny Ash his victory with his unexplained Olympus Mons? Cause that's basically what sets Alain and Tobias apart from each other in that Alain has a host of other moments that probably isn't that hateable.

edited 15th Dec '16 12:35:51 AM by Loekman3

The reason for the hatred isn't relevant, with the exception of Hate Sink related reasons.

On the subject of TheScrappy.Pokemon, this recent entry:

• There's a person riding a Stoutland throughout Heahea City who prevents you from visiting the Hano Grand Resort until Olivia is beaten because they want to find every last hidden object in the city and the bridge connecting it to the resort, with their selfishness and their role as a roadblock both contributing to their hate. By the time the resort becomes available, they'll be on the beach planning to look for even more items, not even apologizing for their hindrance earlier on.

Should it be cut since it wasn't approved here? Should we condor locking the page since it is getting to be an Edit War?

edited 15th Dec '16 1:58:55 PM by Ferot_Dreadnaught

If it wasn't approved on this thread, I say cut it. Just make sure to put in a reminder that all Scrappies must be brought up in this thread to be approved first.

Hey guys, I noticed on the Scrappy's main page on the part where they talk about how hate sinks aren't Scrappies and list an examples of characters who are hate sinks but AREN'T scrappies, like Dolores Umbridge and what not. Thing is, I noticed some people have been editing it and the list has been altered a few times, like the Metal Gear character got replaced with another new character. This led me to question the need to make examples in the trope's actual description like that.

• And Another Duck, the reasons actually are kind of relevant, because of they aren't there, then it's a zero context example.

edited 18th Dec '16 10:17:33 PM by GhostHouse

Someone listed Danu from Shin Megami Tensei IV: Apocalypse as a scrappy and I feel as though it misses a lot and uses weak justification. Here's the entry:

• Base-Breaking Character's aside, among the characters in the game, one that get's a surprising amount of bile ends up being Danu. Reasons range from finding her complacent and/or hypocritical as well as extremely controlling of those around her on top her constantly being put on the moral high-ground. Her actions at the Cosmic Egg did her no favors either.

Without going into spoilers Danu basically wants to help humanity be free from the God's and, while she is a bit of a Control Freak, she's a firmly good character. Complacency isn't really a factor given that she actively is involved after a certain point and is important in getting the Neutral ending.

Spoilers. At the Cosmic Egg she finds out her son Dagda wants to kill the Big Bad YHVH and make Humans gods, but this would kill thousands of humans since killing the god's means their followers die with him. If you go against him he tries to kill you and she tries to reason with him but he refuses. She decides to recreate Dagda when he was idealistic to save you and the original gets beaten.

The example isn't really clear, doesn't explain why she's a scrappy beyond "She's a hypocrite" and really she's a Base Breaker at best.

edited 23rd Dec '16 12:03:36 PM by keyblade333

The entry kind of reads like the writer is trying to sneak something past the "Base-Breaking Character has too many fans to be considered The Scrappy" aspect. Personally, I would cut the entry.

Light Yagami in Death Note was listed as The Scrappy. The same to Seryu in Akame Ga Kill.

Light is too popular. No idea about the other guy.

I removed the Danu entry from Shin Megami Tensei IV: Apocalypse since she wasn't approved of in this thread, and matteste added her back in without consulting this thread. Could we get a consensus over whether or not Danu counts as The Scrappy?

Personally, from what I've seen, she's a Base-Breaking Character at worst, but I'd like to get a few other viewpoints in here.

Danu is at best a Base Breaker really. The person readding it seems to favoring Dagda, even though he was willing to kill your player character for disagreeing with him. Her actions are for humanity and sure making a new version of Dagda is a bit harsh, she does it because it was the only thing allowing the hero, who needs to survive, survive. So yeah she's not a scrappy really.

I feel like I keep having to say this, but The Scrappy is purely about the audience reaction, not whether it's actually a logical reaction to what's in the story.