The Scrappy Cleanup

From that discussion, she doesn't seem like an example.

edited 2nd Jul '16 12:14:48 PM by AnotherDuck

should someone delete her from the list?

That seems like the way it's pointing at the moment, but I'd like another opinion or two. All I've found is that it's mainly about the controversy of the game and related details, rather than about Rose herself. I can't speak for the Japanese opinion, though.

well I found this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tales_of_Zestiria#Controversy

it seems the controversy in japan was a lot more about the way Alisha was treated

I posted a link in the discussion with a translation; they cite it as a conspiracy to make Alicia look bad and Rose look good. It didn't help that Hideo Baba, the producer of the game, greatly favored Rose and her voice actor. The Western fandom knew about the controversy before the game release in the U.S. and Europe. The general consensus is that the story went off the rails as soon as Rose joined the party. There were some speculation that there were behind the scenes development problems and/or changes because of the bad writing and contradictions.

I was going to post here anyway because there is an edit war. I deleted the example and commented out two characters pertaining to the scrappy. Personally, I think it should be deleted because it seems Rose is used as a scapegoat to distract from major storytelling problems.

edited 6th Jul '16 2:11:01 AM by apathetictales

The discussion between me and the other person were about minor word usages regarding things like "everyone" and such. Yes part of it was scapegoating but I argue she is a scrappy. She's really disliked in Japan and she's not very popular from where I've seen. At best in the west she's a Base Breaker and a Scrappy in Japan.

Rose is a definite Scrappy in the Tales fandom. She's just a bit less hated in the West vs Japan. In Japan she's a Replacement Scrappy for Alisha and arguably a Mary Sue (the story goes out of its way to make her look good and slowly begins to revolve around her, her morality creates a huge plot hole that is never addressed). There's also a bunch of controversy about Baba being in love with her VA and supposedly rewriting the whole game to give her character a bigger role (thus pushing Alisha out to make room). She's a Scrappy. Can we stop bringing this up now?

Apparently there's a Tales franchise scrappy page that most people miss: Tales Series. This may be where the confusion is coming from.

.

edited 12th Jul '16 12:20:52 PM by snakeky-man

So far from the stuff I have seen most of the hate is about the company and Rose is liked by a lot of fans, and the hate on the company in japan has died down. If she is a scappy in japan then maybe her japan version should be listed as the scappy?

edited 12th Jul '16 12:45:58 PM by snakeky-man

When a character is a Scrappy in the home country and a Base Breaker in another that's a kind of negative case of Germans Love David Hasselhoff. They're still a Scrappy.

edited 12th Jul '16 2:21:52 PM by PhiSat

I looked every were and the only thing i could find that all of the hate was about the company and that the hate has died down a lot. I also found out that their are two anime's versions comeing out.

Isn't America bigger then Japan?

Japan is where the Tales Series is made, and where the game was first released. The hatred for Rose resulted in backlash against the company, the voice actress (she had to publicly apologize before hundreds of angry fans), the game's director, the character, and even the character designer.

http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1428843

http://www.siliconera.com/2015/01/27/japanese-gamers-tales-zestiria-alisha-costs-1300-yen/

http://www.amazon.co.jp/product-reviews/B00O9SR9NK/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1 (Reviews for the game, the game is currently at 1.5 stars out of 5, most negative reviews coming from either the camera or Alicia vs Rose)

While the game initially sold well, hundreds of Japanese gamers apparently returned their copies and stores refused to stock any more due to overstock. There was legitimate concern that Zestiria was going to take the entire series down in Japan, because of the hatred and backlash against this character:

http://gematsu.com/2015/05/tales-producer-apologies-series-concern-wants-talk-again

She's a Scrappy, plain and simple. If you like her that's fine, you do you, but the facts are facts, Rose was very badly received.

edited 13th Jul '16 11:18:25 AM by PhiSat

The situation with the game's reception is apparently far more complicated than people just hating Rose based on the links you provided. It seemed to be caused by a shitstorm of issues.

edited 13th Jul '16 11:34:03 AM by Karxrida

It is, but Rose definitely plays a huge part in the issue, along with misleading marketing (which worsened the Rose issue).

do you think the two animes might fix some of the issues the japannese fans have?

edited 13th Jul '16 4:19:46 PM by snakeky-man

I heard that the people that did that marketing had nothing do to with the game at all

I think it's fair to put a generic addition to the entry for Doctor Who under Live Action TV. I've been a Whovian for 30 years and I know that there is large Unpleasable Fanbase factor. As such, I think it is fair and accurate to state that every recurring character (companion or otherwise, and one could even extend this to the Doctors themselves) has been treated as "the Scrappy" by some faction of fandom or another. I think adding this might help defuse contentious additions because in the Modern Era of Doctor Who, all of the female companions have been seen as "Scrappys" by some vocal fans: Rose, Martha, Donna, Amy, Clara, River, and I've even seen it with Bill and her first episode hasn't aired yet!

We don't do generic examples. They by default lack context of why they're hated/liked/apply for the trope. Specific examples are always required.

If there's no context, ti fails to be a legitimate example. That context is basically the reason people understand why they fit the trope.

Having some vocal fans who hate a character isn't what The Scrappy is about either. It's where the fanbase as a whole agrees on it.

Ichika Orimura from Infinite Stratos is listed as a Scrappy in the YMMV page. Is he a pure Scrappy or a bad example used by haters when they attack the show?

No, he counts from what I'm seen from people that like the series.

EDIT: I also took care of the Pokémon examples we discussed months ago since no one else did.

edited 21st Jul '16 12:20:20 PM by VeryMelon

From what I've seen Ichika is at least largely tolerated, unless things have changed a lot. I don't think he's even usually on the forefront when people do complain about the series (although he's still part of the problem).

I honesty thought Scrappy Weapon works better to most of them.