Welcome to the Content Violations Discussion forum, where we discuss whether a work violates The Content Policy.
Remember that the forum rules apply here
, plus the following:
- You don't PM moderators about stuff pertaining to the policies, except for thread reasons;
- We tolerate links to scanlation sites unlike in the rest of the site due to its purpose, although it's preferred to remove them when they have done their jobs;
- The forum is not a soapbox for your own views on the policy or on morality. Please leave them at the door.
Violations of these rules can result in a ban from the subforum, or from the entire forum.
Otherwise:
Also, keep in mind that there are works that we don't want flagged without a really good reason as they are not likely in violation of policy:
- Is a film rated below "R" for U.S. distribution.
- Is a show that can be aired on prime time television.
- Is a video game that is rated below "M" by the ESRB.
- Is a written work that is sold in major bookstores without an "adult" or "mature" label.
- Is an anime/manga/etc. that is approved for U.S. import as a non-adult work.
- Is read/shown/taught in high school or below.
- Is in another format and meets equivalent criteria.
What we're looking for:
- Pure porn, or porn with an Excuse Plot only,
- Anything that has explicit underage sex,
- Implied sex of preteens or younger, and
- Fanservice intended to cater to pedophiles (lolicon and shotacon fanservice can count).
A couple of guidelines so the procedure can move smoothly:
- Do not list whole indexes or works just because they are on a certain index or have lolicon, H-Game or shotacon on their trope list.
- Do not list works you know nothing about without at least reading the trope page.
- Do not list works that you know are G-rated but you find creepy.
- If it's paedophile-pandering approximately how old are the characters involved? What happens? Is it graphic? Is it merely implied?
- List what objectionable content there is, and how much of the work consists of that.
- If it's entirely sex, say so. People have different ideas of what porn is. We all have the same idea of what a work being entirely sex scenes is.
- If you're not sure about a work, say so, or ask someone who does know that work. But don't make blanket accusations. Post here: "I don't know about this work, but the page says X".
- Google and Wikipedia are your friendsnote . Do a little digging on works you aren't sure about.
Also, in the case of H Games, there is this questioning to fill up:
- When are the sex scenes located?
- Are they spread out over the game?
- How much gameplay is there between sex scenes?
- Are they only at the endings?
- How hard do you have to work to get an ending?
- Are they in every ending? Every good ending?
- Are the sex scenes optional via a choice in the menu?
- Would the story make sense without them with minimal or no rewriting?
- Are the scenes made up of stills, or are they animated?
- How explicit are the sex scenes?
- This isn't a headcount. Your opinion is only considered if it explains in at least some detail how you came to the conclusion that the work is/isn't porn/paedopandering.
- When a moderator determines that the discussion has yielded a consensus, they can enact its conclusion/ask a moderator to enact the conclusion.
- The discussion is only about whether the work qualifies as porn or as paedopandering. We don't assess anything else in this process.
.
Q: Why is this happening?
A: Concerning the porn, it tends to attract creepy edits that have brought us into issues with the adservers while not significantly contributing to our core purpose - tropology. Concerning paedophilia-pandering, such works are just plain creepy to have pages about.
Q: What can I do to help clean the site?
A: You can flag content as unsuitable using the flag tool, which is located in the Tools menu to the right of each article, keeping the criteria in mind. Also, you can help enforce No Lewdness, No Prudishness across the wiki, possibly though cleaning pages listed in this Long Term Projects thread.
Q. This episodic work isn't finished yet. Shouldn't we wait for the ending before discussing it?
A. No. If released instalments may violate the content policy, we want to take action as soon as that's established — we don't need to wait for the ending. We can always revisit a decision to cut or keep once the work is over, but that point might still be years or decades away.
Q: This work is not actually/primarily pornographic. Why was it cut?
A: This could be for a number of different reasons. If the work was deemed to be paedopandering, for example, it will be cut whether or not it's actually sexually explicit. Being pro-paedophilia or pandering to paedophiles is bad enough, even if the work is nominally anti-paedophilia. Of course, it's possible that there was a mistake and then you should appeal it - please check the reasons first, however.
Q: This work is being/has been cut, but it is not a violation of the Content Policy. How do I make an appeal?
A: Flag the work page using the button in the sidebar and state your reasons for restoration.
Q: This work is pretty much pure porn, but it's really good porn. Can an exception be made?
A: Nope, sorry. If it's mainly porn, it goes.
Q: Why would you cut this? In [culture x], it is totally acceptable.
A: The vast majority of our readers come from the Americas or Western Europe, so we will be adhering to what could broadly be termed "Western" standards. This means we will not be permitting works which sexualize 12 year olds, and nor will we be demanding that every picture of a woman on the site must wear a burqa.
Q: How can you possibly claim to know authorial intent? (Roland Barthes is my co-pilot.)
A: It is not important what the authorial intent was, only the outcome.
Q: Wikipedia have articles on all kinds of awful stuff. Why can't we do the same?
A: Wikipedia is a strictly academic site. They have to cite sources and a "no censorship rule". They also do not aim to be Family Friendly, and are not reliant upon third party ads for funding. Conversely, one of our stated aims is to celebrate fiction, and our generally light, non-negative tone is a reflection of this, which has led to much more gushing about inappropiate content.
Q: So should I take every article here as an endorsement of whatever it describes?
A: No, of course not. We have pages on Greedy Jew, Adolf Hitler and Mein Kampf after all. However, if we choose to focus our attention on schoolgirls' thighs or porn, it does reflect very poorly on us. Fan Fic Recommendations are a slightly different issue. If a work is recommended there, this should be taken as an endorsement by the troper who wrote it.
Q: Are we allowed to make forum threads about works processed by the Content Violation Discussions forum?
A: If it was voted "clean and keep", a forum thread is relatively safe as long as it is restricted to talking about the clean parts. Anything with a stronger judgement is discouraged on the forums.
Q: Where can I find decisions regarding a work?
A: They are linked from the discussion page. Sometimes the old list of content reviews or the thread list in this forum can help as well.
Q: I still have some questions/concerns.
A: We will be happy to answer them. There is a thread for this.
- Guro: Violence played for titillation. (contrast Gorn)
- 5P or P5: The panel that administered the policy prior to the review system being overhauled in 2022. See 5P.
- P(a)edoshit: Older term for "P(a)edopandering", deprecated for being inflammatory.
- Porn: A work mostly concerned with sexual arousal. Having NSFW or explicit scenes doesn't automatically make a work porn — it's when showcasing explicit scenes is the entire point of the work.
Also, questions about the policy can be asked here. They will be added to this thread's FAQ section once answered.
Edited by Mrph1 on May 5th 2024 at 6:00:30 PM
^I wasn't asking on the opinion on the policy, but on the page Content Policy.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
Of course we're a Wiki. That we apply standards does not mean we're not a Wiki. Being a Wiki doesn't mean that you don't get to decide what sort of stuff you want and what you don't want, and it does not mean that you don't get to decide who gets to edit and who doesn't.
Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
You want me to comment on how the page is set up, is that it? You need to be specific, I get a post once every 10 minutes, but if you are asking that, I think it's fine, it gives you the information that you need, and answers questions as to what many people were wondering when they looked up certain pages and found them gone.
The answer you gave is indeed what I was asking for
. It's good to know that it works.
Thats good. Also, I have had a revelation. While waiting for the abiltiy to post, I thought I'd look around on Google a little. I ending up searching for a manga called Mai-Chans daily life. Yyyeah, I think I can better appreciate what kinds of media and pages you don't want here anymore. On tvtropes, all the links that refer to it (dead, and thats OK) as something that isn't for the faint of heart. It goes so beyond that it's not even remotely funny. Brain Bleach needed here, stat! *brrr* Anyway, I'm done here, but that doesn't mean I'm not open to comments. Give me a buzz, I'll get back to you!
Hi
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
We did have a page for Mai-chan (originally written by me, for the record) but it was cut, and deservedly so. The only regret I have about the decision is that I scarred my soul for nothing.
edited 8th Sep '12 3:24:21 PM by Willbyr
There was support for a "give reasons or be zapped" policy before, but discussion kinda died down. Can we go ahead and add it to the sandbox under a paragraph like this
, The Place for Purging Porn and Pedo-Pandering (AKA P5 flag evaluations) or the article's discussion page before flagging. Any flag issued without such arguments will be removed and a notice posted on the discussion page in question.
Hi
I'm down with that.
Until further notice
Sounds good.
Not a substitute for a formal medical consultation.
R.I.P 2 My Youth
I dig.
"Polite life will fill you full of cancer." - Iggy Pop "I've seen the future, brother, it is murder." -Leonard Cohen
TV Tropes' Sonic Wiki Curator
Boldly edited the page.
Also, unless someone has any objections, I'll launch the sandbox to The Content Policy and the 5P Circuit within 3-4 hours. (It will get some redirects, probably)
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Go for it.
Given the lack of objections, I have launched the page and asked for some crosswicking in the Edit Requests For Locked Pages thread.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Looks good.
I sure hope some of those rules and some cut stuff gets reviewed and are back to tv tropes. I still believe that there are works that were mis-cutted. But hey need to be correctly reviewed and there's not time yet. The guys who take care of that (incl. P5) will need to understand the exaggeration that is happening and IMO looseup the paedopandering rule. I don't know about how America works with it but for the eyes of a West European you are exaggerating.
... Let's just mark that into the TODO to be done when P5 is done with the whole current content of tv tropes and when ads are back.
edited 13th Sep '12 12:49:43 AM by brunoais
We are going by American standards here. That's just the way it is. Even though they are probably the less useful ones.
The page would work even better with an index. I've requested but not got any reply yet.
I'm pretty sure we aren't going by "American standards", whatever those would be. We're going by TV Tropes standards.
Which are partially American (or to be exact, a adapted/flanderized version of American ones).
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
By the way, has anybody remarks to the edit requests connected to the new page The Content Policy and the 5P Circuit? Some of them are non-trivial.
TV Tropes is using its own standards, not "American standards". There is no shortage of stuff that has been cut that is perfectly legal in America, and in a few cases treated as "mainstream" fiction by booksellers and libraries alike.
edited 13th Sep '12 6:40:05 PM by Catbert
^It's not about legality, mate. We've been over that already. If we judged by legality we could scrap the whole policy.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
If some thing was illegal we would nuke it of the site policy or no policy.
Nothing you are saying contridicts my simple assertion that TV Tropes is using its own standards, not the standards of any particular nation state or continent.
Usually, we refer to the 16-year rule as "American" standard.
Also, any comments on the edit request in @220?
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
According to the rules of the Content Policy, stating my opinion of it is a no-no. However, since a troper of greater experience than I has asked, I will answer. It is a good policy, I will apply an anthropomorphic term to it by saying that its heart is in the right place. After a little back-and-forth on the issue, it has come to my attention that this is not quite a wiki, rather, it is something else. I do not know what, exactly, and it is not bad, but it is not a wiki as I had orginally thought. I hope that answers your question, and I will stick around on the TV Tropes threads and discussions, so please feel free to contact me and I will enjoy answering any questions you may have, as well as learning more about what it takes to be a "good troper."