Complaining NEW CROWNER: AltTitles 12-28-12: Gannon Banned

Total posts: [127]
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1 nrjxll18th Aug 2012 01:30:12 PM , Relationship Status: Not war
I was just looking at this page recently, and the examples are a mess. They're virtually identical to those on Internet Backdraft, and Fandom Heresy before it - the latter has since had its examples cut, and a separate thread is attempting to make the former In-Universe only - with back-and-forth natter between "fan"doms, raving hyperbole ("Confusing Star Wars with Star Trek in the presence of either fandom is one of the most brutal suicide methods known to man"), and in general a very unpleasant tone.

Given the precedent for considering example sections like this undesirable, is there any reason why this can't be a purely definitional page?

edited 18th Aug '12 1:32:11 PM by nrjxll

I think you're really misrepresenting the tone of the page. Most of the examples seem pretty unbiased to me. They present the fandom's case (why it's incorrect) and the people getting it wrong's case (why it's such an easy mistake to make).

The "raving hyperbole" as you call it isn't raving at all. It's just a way of describing the situation in a tone that isn't completely serious.
3 burnpsy18th Aug 2012 07:15:13 PM , Relationship Status: Abstaining
[up]I agree. Looking over the sections I'm most familiar with (anime/manga and video games), I saw nothing that merits the existence of this thread.
4 nrjxll18th Aug 2012 07:27:31 PM , Relationship Status: Not war
I... what? I'm half wondering if I somehow linked to the wrong page. The examples are only "unbiased" because they're filled with back-and-forth natter between two sides of various arguments - anime/manga is probably the worst section on the entire page thanks to the stupid "Translation Wars", and video games is the second worst.

How do the examples read at all differently from those formerly on Internet Backdraft?
I'm not gonna lie, looking at that page is like peering into this site's past: It's one of the last remaining outposts from an era plagued with fandom wars, natter, and bashing. I'm not saying the page should be locked or purged, but it should be closely monitored. My suggestion is to cleanse the page of hyperbole/natter and attach some warnings about it in wiki comments. If it doesn't work out, more drastic action should be taken. It's sad to see pages locked or purged of examples, but fortunately, it seems this page can be saved before it's too late.

I guess it all boils down to yet another discussion about this wiki's goals and purpose: Are we an informal chronicle of literary and artistic tropes, or a community of fandoms analyzing and discussing works? Well, Fast Eddie seems to be leaning towards the former opinion, as implied by the site's goals (Forgive me, I'm new here, so I'm not sure how to pothole/wikiword to articles on other namespaces):

1. The wiki is about tropes used to tell stories.

2. We will be accessible and fun to read.

3. The wiki is for reaching the reader.

4. In order to be accessible, we cannot be locked into a specific fandom's viewpoint. (That last one refers to opinions in the main page.)

Rules are rules, and if most of this site's moderators agree, they're probably for the better. Gannon Banned, Internet Backdraft and related "tropes" are inherently flame and natter bait that have little to do with the site's goals. Now that I think about it, it's probably more efficient to just give the page an example sectionectomy as a fanspeak term. What do you guys think?

edited 18th Aug '12 9:22:07 PM by AmateurPolymath

6 nrjxll18th Aug 2012 09:05:05 PM , Relationship Status: Not war
Now that I think about it, it's probably more efficient to just give the page an example sectionectomy as a fanspeak term.

That's exactly why I was proposing in the first place.

And, incidentally, your post is perhaps the best explanation ever of why I'm so determined to fight bashing, gushing, and Fan Myopia on here.

edited 18th Aug '12 9:05:30 PM by nrjxll

"The Darth Wiki section is Just for Fun things that are the inverse of the wiki's mission"

Alternatively, the page and pages like it could be moved to Darth Wiki. IMO, it's a nicer alternative than outright purging the page of examples. I'm starting to notice that this site's policy on fixing pages is rather inconsistent. Some pages are locked, some pages are gutted of examples, some pages get a cleanup, and a lucky few are moved to Darth Wiki or Sugar Wiki. It's a shame, really.

edited 18th Aug '12 10:38:06 PM by AmateurPolymath

8 nrjxll18th Aug 2012 10:41:27 PM , Relationship Status: Not war
[up]Definitely not a good solution - the idea that Darth Wiki is a dumping ground for overly-unpleasant pages has done both it and the more general wiki no good in the past.
Alright, forgive me; I'm new here.
Cut, turn into a redirect for Fan Dumb?
12 nrjxll1st Sep 2012 02:15:49 PM , Relationship Status: Not war
That's a possibility, although I don't see the problem with leaving it as an exampleless definition page.
13 SeptimusHeap1st Sep 2012 02:50:43 PM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
No cut and no redirect. The argument is about the example quality - not enough for wider action.

I guess that if anybody wants to curate this, they can do so, but otherwise Example Sectionectomy is the way to go.
So Gannon-Banned is an outside term? Otherswise, it's ridiculous that we coin a term for "Fan Beserk Button" and then supply no examples.
15 SeptimusHeap1st Sep 2012 03:18:24 PM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
For the The Legend of Zelda version, yes, as a quick Google search shows.
The page is actually pretty redundant anyway. The legit examples could probably be merged into Beam Me Up, Scotty!, Common Knowledge, or Spell My Name with an "S".
17 Spark92nd Sep 2012 02:00:37 AM from Castle Wulfenbach , Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
This is not an established term; it's a meme localized to the community of one particular game series (i.e. Zelda). I see no reason why we should have a page on it, we're not
Special trousers. Very heroic.
18 SeptimusHeap2nd Sep 2012 02:04:32 AM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
[up][up]These tropes have nothing to do with this Audience Reaction. No.

[up]The page is not about the meme. It's using the meme's name for the Audience Reaction.

Also, folks, the examples are the problem, not the page.
19 IndirectActiveTransport2nd Sep 2012 07:27:11 PM from Chicago , Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
You Give Me Fever
I say cut it or move it to the darth wiki or trivia tab. This isn't a trope, so it has no real business on the website to begin with and the "Your Mileage May Vary" tab really should go. We already had Just for Fun, Sugar Wiki, Darth Wiki, So You Want To, Image Wiki, Quotes Wiki, Trivia, Troper Tales and Useful Notes! How many non trope tabs do we really need to have? One less, less abolish Your Mileage May Vary, one at a time. Either it fits into one of the other numerous non trope tabs or it gets the ax.
That's why he wants you to have the money. Not so you can buy 14 Cadillacs but so you can help build up the wastes
That... is a suggestion that definitely exceeds this discussion's scope.

^^ I won't object to cutting examples, but I don't see what use the page is without them. "Fans get angry about certain things. And that's all we have top say on the subject." Um... okay?

edited 2nd Sep '12 7:30:49 PM by Routerie

21 IndirectActiveTransport2nd Sep 2012 07:43:46 PM from Chicago , Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
You Give Me Fever
Please, Darth Wiki is all about lies and misinformation, this page would be perfect for it. Beyond that, I guess I could make another topic for discussing how we should go about eliminating the "Your Mileage May Vary Tab".
That's why he wants you to have the money. Not so you can buy 14 Cadillacs but so you can help build up the wastes
22 nrjxll2nd Sep 2012 07:46:09 PM , Relationship Status: Not war
To be honest, I don't care whether we keep the page or not. I just want those examples gone.
23 SeptimusHeap3rd Sep 2012 08:24:53 AM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
Do you have any arguments for cutting it? Beyond the "off-purpose" argument that does not hold much water due to case law.

And we are not using Darth Wiki as a dumping ground anymore.
Yeah, whatever else we do, something needs to be done about these examples. Just look at some of 'em

"Asking for Super Mario Bros. 4 to be made will lead irked fans to point out that it already exists—only it was called Super Mario World in the US."

What kind of jerk wrote that? Doesn't he get that we aren't about bashing things?

"That famous Lynyrd Skynyrd song with the long guitar solo? It's called Free Bird, not Freebird. Diehard Skynyrd fans WILL correct you."

Jesus, chill out, editor! We're trying to make a wiki here, not host your hate-filled rants.

"Family Guy fans hate it when people and the media call it The Family Guy."

That one I just deleted on-sight. We don't need that kind of filth on the wiki - it's just making us all look bad.

edited 3rd Sep '12 9:04:56 AM by abk0100

25 IndirectActiveTransport3rd Sep 2012 10:13:48 AM from Chicago , Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
You Give Me Fever
Putting a page about false information on the section of the wiki that deals with false information is hardly treating darth wiki as a dumping ground. Don't even try that nonsense talk anymore.
That's why he wants you to have the money. Not so you can buy 14 Cadillacs but so you can help build up the wastes

Alternative Titles: Gannon Banned Nerd Rage
28th Dec '12 1:48:02 PM
Vote up names you like, vote down names you don't. Whether or not the title will actually be changed is determined with a different kind of crowner (the Single Proposition crowner). This one just collects and ranks alternative titles.
At issue:

Total posts: 127
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