Nemesis
No matter what he may have done, he deserves to be charged, tried in a fair courtroom, the charges against him detailed, a proper and vigorous defense mounted on his behalf, and to be imprisoned only for the charges fairly proven against him in court, and to be held humanely.
Imprisoning indefinitely without trial is something the United States should be ashamed of. We have laws, including military laws. Follow them.
A brighter future for a darker age.
Catalytic
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
That.
Because every response I tried to formulate to your post, Mark, devolved into "what the fucking fuck [incoherent rage]."
Thank you Morven.
"Lock up your girlfriends, lock up your wives, Grim's on the loose so run for your lives." - Pyrite
Yup.
edited 19th Aug '12 8:00:14 PM by TheBatPencil
And let us pray that come it may (As come it will for a' that)
Night Clerk of the Apacalypse.
Personally I think he made a mountain out of a mole hill. If he had marched into his questioning or hearing insisting his innocence I would have given him more credit for his claims. Instead he sounds mildly crazy spouting questionable conspiracy as his excuse for not facing the music fled one country and is attempting to flee another when things didn't go his way.
England granted him asylum and gave him a fair hearing, let him not sit in a prison cell and instead stay in better quarters, even let him attend a protest without locking him up. When they use facts and reason to find no reason to not extradite him to Sweden he insults their generosity by breaking bail (the guy who spotted his bail probably got dinged pretty badly) and trying to flee.
He is claiming he wants to escape America by fleeing Europe an area where the U.S. has much more limited reach to Ecuador damn near in Americas back yard. Anyone else think that might be a bad idea?
I do approve of his new haircut though.
Who watches the watchmen?
Questionable conspiracy? The man is number one on the US's shit list. Mainly because he is the one man they stand a chance of popping off. Assad is safe, so is whatever idiot son is ruling North Korea now. Khamanei too, as well as the suited one that he uses as a glove puppet and calls himself president.
Besides, if Assange does make it to Latin America, he will more than likely end up in Venezuela. Nothing would please Chavez more than to stick a massive middle finger at los Yanquis diablos. And I don't see the States actually trying to topple him either.
Wandering Jew
...Isn't Ecuador part of Latin America?
Do you mean South America?
Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Night Clerk of the Apacalypse.
It is questionable. Oh noes they are trying to get me to America by having me answer questions down at the station IN SWEDEN! Instead of walking down to the station to answer questions about his charges he fled like a common criminal. I highly doubt we have CIA/FBI/NSA snatch or kill teams waiting in the wings just for a low grade smuck like Assange.
If anything it would be better to let him remain free and continue to claim the American bogey men are waiting in Europe to get him instead and then flying to a region of the world that could give less of a fuck about international law in the big picture.
If we wanted him that badly he would have been grabbed or dead a long time ago. If the U.S. couldn't get him who says we couldn't have one of our less scrupulous allies like say Israel snatch him up. They have a pretty good record for sneaking in and either assassinating or snatching people. The sheer number of times he has been exposed where a ambush or clever kidnappers could have bagged him makes it highly doubtful his conspiracy has any truth to it. It is not a credible conspiracy that the Swedish government is going to hand him over to the U.S. for answering questions about possibly legitimate charges. Sweden is more likely to tell us to fuck off then hand him over.
It is entirely feasible he did something stupid. I hate to remind you folks he is human and does stupid things. This not the even the first time he dropped the ball. Members left his organization because he screwed up or did something reckless or stupid.
As for South America. We can just wait for Chavez to die of cancer. If Ecuador is offering him asylum the chances of him ending up in Ecuador are a lot higher then another country. I highly doubt he would go to Chavez who is known to silence the freedom of the press or have we already forgotten that bit of recent history?
Who watches the watchmen?
Imprisoning indefinitely without trial is something the United States should be ashamed of. We have laws, including military laws. Follow them.
Well said.![[awesome]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/minis/award_star_gold_3.png "[awesome]"){kind=small}
Everyone deserves a fair trial and fair treatment under the law.
edited 20th Aug '12 1:19:55 AM by Talby
Night Clerk of the Apacalypse.
Now to get to him to actually even visit a courtroom without claiming conspiracy.
As far as I can tell he has been given reasonable due process in England and ran off when it didn't go his way.
Who watches the watchmen?
He wants a guarantee that Sweden won't hand him over to the US. Not unreasonable considering the circumstances.
Sneering Imperialist
Might Sweden be refusing to offer such a guarantee because it doesn't want to be seen acquiescing to the demands of a wanted suspect? It's not unreasonable to not want to set a precedent.
With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.
Night Clerk of the Apacalypse.
Funny I thought that the U.K. did not guarantee he would not be extradited to the U.S. either. Plus doesn't he have a number of legal options he could exercise including the Human Rights court?
pagad: possibly.
Another question. What is to stop the U.K. government from telling Ecuador they no longer have an embassy and then seizing him and then simply dropping him into the arms of the U.S. after embarrassing them?
edited 20th Aug '12 2:13:04 AM by TuefelHundenIV
Who watches the watchmen?
He left Sweden before they requested him. The case was closed and then it was reopened while he was in UK. He refused to go back and said he could be interviewed in UK. When Sweden refused he got suspicious and believed it to be some kind of rendition plot. So he fought the extradition in court in the UK. He eventually lost this and Sweden refused to guarantee he would not be extradited.
There has been no investigation into the sexual assault case in Sweden itself, so the case has become clearly political with no intention of doing anything for the two women who put forth the allegations.
I don't know of any specific example of lives endangered by information handed out by Wikileaks and it's getting somewhat frustrating to hear this statement repeated multiple times while wilfully ignoring how Wikileaks spits out information by vetting it through reputable journalists and media organisations. Of the crimes exposed, people have said very little and the crimes exposed, as I've previously stated, includes upwards to American soldiers in Afghanistan protecting a child sex trafficking ring.
Yet, we will sit here and we will complain about this guy who does nothing more than be a spokes person for an organisation originally built by Chinese dissidents and pretend we are about freedom or democracy and we will let child sex traffickers get away with their crimes because that is more politically expedient. I don't think anything is more disgusting than this mass disregard of social priorities.
The Shadows Devour You.
That's effectively what they're threatening to do. That's what the hubbub is about.
People keep talking about "Storming an embassy". That isn't what they're threatening. What they are threatening, and what Ecuador are so furious about, is to revoke the embassy's status as an embassy.
edited 20th Aug '12 2:20:51 AM by GameChainsaw
The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.
Which, by itself, is as illegal as actually storming the embassy.
The Shadows Devour You.
Night Clerk of the Apacalypse.
bread: First
I also challenge that it certainly seems like there was investigation into the charges go read that guardian article again. Looks like they did plenty of investigation to me. In fact his Swedish lawyers look to be on ball.
While it provides an opportunity to discredit him this gives me more doubts that his claim of conspiracy has any validity.
The article also points out it is more likely the two women have personal motives like money and revenge for something that occurred between them and Assange.
In short the charges are far less sinister and honestly much more mundane and common then quite a few make them out to be.
I can agree there is some concern over whether or not Sweden might decide to extradite him if pressed by the U.S. but I highly doubt this case was drummed up to do just that. They had him in Sweden with the police. If that was the purpose of the accusations why not grab him then? By the time anyone figured out what happened he could have been long gone.
Right now I would say the biggest concern is that the U.K. will just pass him off to the U.S. after he embarrassed the government there. Rather than send him to Sweden and then have him shipped to the U.S.
The Chinese dissidents you claim to have started wikileaks (which does not appear to be the case) have nothing to do with the current discussion. It is one thing to have Chinese dissident volunteers or staff it is another to claim they started it. In fact it looks like it was very likely created and launched by Assange and his original group of associates. Some of which have since left due to various issues.
here is a nice Aljazeera article for you
Sneering Imperialist
I'd just like to note that it is unlikely that we will simply ship him to the US as our government has insisted that it intends to fulfill a legal obligation to send him to Sweden, and a decision to put him on a plane to the States would be both embarrassing and attract a lot of flak.
With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.
Night Clerk of the Apacalypse.
pagad: Good point.
Who watches the watchmen?
He is a bit paranoid, as evidenced by him jumping bail. However, I can see why he didn't want to stick around; he busted some serious shit about the US, and they are pissed as a bag full of wasps. Sweden didn't guarentee they wouldn't ship him to his lifelong jail sentence, so he jumped ship.
The most important thing to remember is that he is a person. He can, has and probably will fuck up in the past and future. I support the guy's plight; the US are being real assholes. But that's no reason to discredit any fuck-ups he may make.
(For the record, I know he didn't "rape" anyone. Sexual assault maaaaaaybe, but not rape.)
edited 20th Aug '12 6:18:31 AM by MrMallard
Chavez wouldn't hurt a hair on Assange's head, teufel. You don't need to tell me of how much a fucker lil' Hugo actually is, I can read, 8-)
But he is a smart fucker. The reason why the American government hate his guts is that he shafted them for underestimating him. And I don't see him losing power until he is dead.
Assange would be a prize beyond rubies in Caracas. Of course, he would have to sacrifice a large amount of his "integrity" to take advantage of it, but better to be thought of as a fool rather than end up as a corpse.
Nemesis
@Mr. Mallard: One of the counts does count as rape, since it was sexual intercourse without consent (the woman was asleep, she alleges, and woke up to find the act already in progress).
Non-violent rape is still rape.
The degree to which people are willing to dismiss or demonize the women who complained about him bothers me.
A brighter future for a darker age.
Night Clerk of the Apacalypse.
I can agree to a certain amount of paranoia but I believe he has let it get the better of him and it is affecting his judgement and behavior.
Morven: Indeed we should still consider the possibility he did screw up until proven otherwise. Both sides of the story seem kind of strange. Unless we can get the full view of all the evidence and events we likely will not know what went on.
Who watches the watchmen?
It isn't paranoia when some bastard really does want to get you.
Huh, Manning's been in jail for 800 days? Good, I hope that bastard rots there for a hell of a lot longer.