Needs Help (alt titles crowner 8/13): Did Not Do The Research

The page type disagrees with you. Also, the description sounds more like a trope + index than just an index - far too many details on why inaccuracies occur.

The page currently reads "This index has no examples and should not be used as a trope elsewhere. A simple failure of research on one point does not make a trope. Any example should be labelled as a registered trope or it simply doesn't get marked down at all. Otherwise, everything would end up here." I thought we established that firmly in this thread.

(The page used to act as a trope and an index. It still has thousands of wicks. A special efforts thread has been open for the past eight months to delete them.)

edited 9th Jul '12 8:37:12 AM by Routerie

I was basing off my postings on the other threads on the subject, and they were quite undecided on the "is this a trope" question.

What's the "hardsplit the examples by subject" part? When did that get talked about?

I don't understand that option because examples are already hard-split by subject.

Because they are not useful if they are lumped into one big pile. The reason why we have lists of research failures - and this is secondhand info from the You Fail Forever rename threads - is so that we can split the examples off into actual tropes once and a while. Just a big pile of unsorted examples is pointless.

^The option is there so that they don't get lumped all into the same list if the merge passes.

edited 9th Jul '12 8:39:05 AM by SeptimusHeap

So that entry is about merging indexes, not merging tropes?

For merging the Artistic License Index and the subitems (Artistic License Whatever) into Did Not Do The Research or whatever we rename it to.

Yes, tropes, if the example lists of the Artisticlicense Indexes subitems are tropes.

So you want to merge the tropes and then hard-split the examples? What does that even mean?

"Hard split by topic", i.e just like we split overly-long pages, but by subject matter rather than medium as we do for overly long pages.

I prefer the opposite- merge DNDTR into AL.

We can still rename it after merging it the other way around. There are rename and merge options in the crowner, and I support to merge them under another name.

And it's Al-I, not AL. Artistic License is omething completely different than Artistic License – Indexes. Please read the pages before making arguments.

edited 9th Jul '12 9:10:11 AM by SeptimusHeap

^^^ Again, the examples are ALREADY split by subject. Geology examples go in Artistic License – Geology. Chemistry examples go in Artistic License – Chemistry. Engineering goes in Artistic License – Engineering.

So you're proposing we take all those examples and put them on one page, and then we split them again. What does that do exactly?

Oh, for goodness sake.

I was talking about merging Artistic License – Indexes and its subitems like Artistic License – Physics with DNDTR, because they are the same thing, under a different name. Hardsplitting because a) we can't have a page that big as would happen by merging the examples into one page and b) doing so by subject rather than medium.

Or, as I explained here. I've added a link to the crowner as well, so that people understand it.

edited 9th Jul '12 9:21:00 AM by SeptimusHeap

So you merge Artistic License – Physics with Did Not Do The Research. Then you split off examples by subject, so the physics ones get their own page? How is that different from what we have now?

Or do you want to merge the dozens of Artistic License – Physics tropes as well? (That replaces tropes with a general error page, which is the exact opposite of what we should and have been trying to do.)

Paragraph 2#: No. I've already said that.

Paragraph 1#: The merge is for the index Al-I. The sub-"tropes" would be moved to the new name too, but as example subpages, not as new snowclones.

Yes, they would be under one name. Because it matters little if they are under different names of the same name family (Artistic License-X) or under one name with different topic specifications (Future Trope Name / X) as they are in both cases just a list of errors.

Or, in other words: AL-I will be merged into DNDTR (or a renamed page if we have one) into a page that holds the index that DNDTR currently holds. This page will also hold an index of subpages. These subpages will hold the content of the pages that the pages on AL-I (i.e the examples of inaccuracies, not misplaced tropes) currently have. Tropes that aren't lists of inaccuracies (and thus shouldn't be on AL-I) will stay as they are.

edited 9th Jul '12 9:29:42 AM by SeptimusHeap

If I still can't understand the proposal after all my time on this thread, I'm baffled at how anyone just stumbling on to the crowner could.

So now it seems you want to merge all the indexes into one big index. Right?

There are two indexes. Al-I and DNDTR. These will be merged. Indexes on the various Artistic License pages will be moved with the other content of these pages content to the subpages of the merged "trope"

And I think we all need to know better what all these pages are about.

edited 9th Jul '12 9:32:06 AM by SeptimusHeap

Since the Aristic Licenses Indexes pages are already subpages of a non-trope, you are effectively proposing that we:

1) Rename the AL-I pages

2) Merge the AL-I and DNDTR indexes

3) Give the merged index the new name we assigned the AL-I pages. For example, if we rename the AL-I pages to "Inaccuracies - Physics" etc, the merged index will be called "Inaccuracies" or "Inaccuracies Tropes."

Is that right?

edited 9th Jul '12 9:37:25 AM by Routerie

I meant I wanted DNDTR merged into the AL Index but I said somethign diff

Inaccuracies.Physics not Inaccuracies - Physics. Basically right otherwise. I also added a description to the crowner.

Okay. I'm glad I understand you now. But how does that solve any of the issues we've discussed in this thread?

The thread's original topic was - "How do we stop people from using DNDTR as a trope?"

Another issue that came up - "Should we be collecting errors on subpages like Artistic License – Geology at all?"

That proposal addresses neither of those. What is it trying to accomplish?

Lemme put it this way:

1. Did Not Do The Research needs a rename. The name is negative and captures only half of the index, because not all items have to be accidental.
2. Each of the subitems of Artistic License – Indexes (example: Artistic License – Physics) is "Did Not Do The Research But More Specific" (example: Did Not Do The Research But For Physics). Each of these subpages just holds a list of examples for a specific subject matter of Did Not Do The Research.
3. If we merge them, we can't throw all the various examples of the subpages into one page, because it would break the page size limit. Thus it must be split, like e.g Network Decay
4. I am aiming at splitting them by subject matter (i.e Inaccuracies.Physics) rather than by medium or alphabet, since lists of inaccuracies are slightly better in subject-matter format than alphabetic one.
5. If this merge happens, the central Artistic License – Indexes index will stop being necessary, making it merge-able with DNDTR (or whatever we will name it)

1. Agreed
2. Agreed
3. Agreed, but merging and then splitting them is equivalent to renaming them
4. They are already split by subject matter.
5. Wouldn't we still want a list of the DNDTR subpages, in addition to a list of DNDTR tropes?

This proposal changes the AL-I pages from separate pages to subpages. This is good because none are tropes, but mightn't this encourage people to make even more of them, without even the check of YKTTW?

Re 4#: Yes. I meant that to say that they won't be lumped into one big useless pile. Re 5#: Yes. I think in fact that all the AL-I pages are indexed on DNDTR as well.

On the encouragement topic: I don't think that it will make them necessarily more likely to occur. We still need to occasionally create actual tropes for examples, if enough of them in a specific pattern exist to make an actual trope.