Misused: Expy

Wait, I thought a Lawyer-Friendly Cameo was supposed to be a certain character with some of the serial numbers filed off.

If we can, we can convert Expy to an index of several subtropes like Captain Ersatz and others much like what was done with Action Girl. Something that we're definitely missing is something that covers the original definition: similar characters by the same author/company. I could propose that on YKTTW if everyone wants.

Character that is supposed to be another character when the original is not useable. Ersatz for an unrelated story or suspiciously similar substitute for a related one. Those make since because they are referencing different works.

Character based on a real person. No celebrities were harmed and Author Avatar. They are not mutually exclusive so it makes sense to have both.

As long as the character is from a different work, I do not see what the significance of the original author is in the expy trope. It is still character from newer work based on older work's character, the same trope. No need for a new page, just a need to remove misuse where found.

I think the problem with Expy is that everyone is going by audience perception on whether the character is similar or not, when it's actually supposed to be clearly intentional on the author's part.

To fix this, we should move any example of these non-examples to Counterpart Comparison, since that trope is supposed to be about the audience comparing one character to another.

I remember that someone put that Rainbow Dash was an Expy of Sonic The Hedgehog, when her creator, Lauren Faust, said that she was an Expy of Firefly instead. So I moved that part to Counterpart Comparison.

Perhaps we need a Special Efforts thread to move bad examples of Expy to Counterpart Comparison.

x3 I think Lawyer-Friendly Cameo has some problems too.

Perhaps it warrants a merging.

Captain Ersatz Cameo = Lawyer-Friendly Cameo ?

I think I'm seeing the issue, we have a whole big pile of tropes that seem to run together.

Let's make it like Action Girl, then: an index of all its subtropes.

Action Girl is trope + index. It also won't help much, since Expy is easy to pothole and people will automatically defer to it as the easiest solution.

And we can't redlink it because it's become used off the wiki.

How about a Super-Trope of all of the above?

Is there a reason why all of these distinctions are actually necessary in the first place? I don't see one.

I think Lawyer-Friendly Cameo was supposed to be, essentially, a Captain Ersatz of a real-life celebrity. ...No, wait, that's No Celebrities Were Harmed.

I think there's a clear delineation separating Captain Ersatz / Lawyer-Friendly Cameo from other kinds of character concept theft, but I'm not sure what the definitions of all of these are so it's difficult to say.

Ugh... What are all the tropes involved in this pile-up?

• Expy
  • Fountain of Expies (which should make it clear that the original 'must have same author' definition has already been abandoned beyond recovery)
• Alternate Company Equivalent?
• Captain Ersatz
• Counterpart Comparison
• Lawyer-Friendly Cameo
• No Celebrities Were Harmed
• Same Story, Different Names
• Serial Numbers Filed Off
• Similar Squad
• Spiritual Successor
• Spiritual Licensee
• Suspiciously Similar Substitute

edited 3rd Nov '12 5:45:55 PM by Noaqiyeum

Wait, isn't Lawyer-Friendly Cameo and No Celebrities Were Harmed the same trope? Oy.

Laconic for Lawyer-Friendly Cameo:

Laconic for No Celebrities Were Harmed:

Yeesh, you're right. Looks like a merging is in order.

edited 3rd Nov '12 11:20:25 PM by WaxingName

The actual pages, especially the distinction LFC makes, seem to make clear that LFC is about fictional characters while No Celebrities Were Harmed is about celebrities, but the quote on the latter, which would seem to better fit nearly any other trope on the list above, isn't helping.

I think Expy really suffers from being far older than the expectation that most tropes go through YKTTW. The oldest Internet Archive version says "Usually seen in different works by the same writer(s) or production team", yet I'd be hard pressed to figure out when they wouldn't be by the same writer or production team based on the rest of that page.

edited 4th Nov '12 2:29:12 AM by MorganWick

May I propose a YKTTW for a subtrope that specifically deals with an Expy by the same creator for different works?

I support that idea.

Problem is, I don't know if Expy would have a firm definition without that aspect. I think we need to take everything on the list above and figure out how to divide and recombine them. First question: how is Expy used outside the wiki again? (And at this point, are we sure we're really responsible for it? Because I'd really prefer to get rid of it entirely if not.)

edited 4th Nov '12 3:04:43 AM by MorganWick

It's pretty clear from what's being used now that having the same creator is not part of the description and current off-wiki use anymore. That's why I'd like to make a trope specifically about a creator making similar characters in order to fill in that gap.

edited 4th Nov '12 3:16:33 AM by WaxingName

I have all the ideas to write the description of what I proposed earlier. I'm just lacking a good name for it. Are there any suggestions for a good name for an Expy by the same creator?

Reused Character? Reused Character Template?

I refer you to this post. Similar characters by the same creator and similar characters by different ones are not a splitting factor. It's arbitrary.

Furthermore, we already have Reused Character Design when a creator recycles the art style, so something about a creator reusing the character wholesale is going to run redundant.

An expy (of one's own character) doesn't have to be a Reused Character Design, though. The character could look different but have virtually the same personality, skills, etc., and they would still be an expy.

I argue that it is a splitting point. The reasons behind a creator recycling his own characters and one creator ripping off another's can be very different.

Also, it would be nice if we have something that preserves the original meaning of Expy, so that people won't keep trying to TRS it back to its original meaning.

Also the poster above me explains why recycled characterization can also make an Expy.

edited 4th Nov '12 6:41:23 AM by WaxingName