Note: If a newly launched trope was already given a No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only designation while it was being drafted on the Trope Launch Pad, additions to the proper index do not need to go through this thread. Instead, simply ask the mods to add the trope via this thread
.
This is the thread to report tropes with problematic Real Life sections.
Common problems include:
- Conversation on the Main Page
- Flame Bait
- Squicky content
- Impossible in Real Life
Real Life sections on the wiki are kept as long as they don't become a problem. If you find an article with such problems, report it here. Please note that the purpose of this thread is to clean up and maintain real life sections, not raze them. Cutting should be treated as a last resort, so please only suggest cutting RL sections or a subset thereof you think the examples in question are completely unsalvageable.
If historical RL examples are not causing any problems, consider whether it would be better to propose a No Recent Examples, Please! (via this forum thread) for RL instead of NRLEP. If RL examples are causing problems only for certain subjects, consider whether a Limited Real Life Examples Only restriction would be preferable to NRLEP.
If you think a trope should be No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only, then this thread is the place to discuss it. However, please check Keep Real Life Examples first to see if it has already been brought up in the past. If not, state the reasons and add it to the crowner.
Before adding to the crowner:
- The trope should be proposed in the thread, along with reasons for why a crowner is necessary instead of a cleanup.
- There must be support from others in thread.
- Any objections should be addressed.
- Allow a minimum of 24 hours for discussion.
When adding to the crowner:
- Be sure to add the trope name, a link to where the discussion started, the reasons for crownering, whether the restriction being proposed is NRLEP or LRLEO (and in the latter case, which subject(s) the restriction would be for), and the date added.
- Announce in thread that you are adding the item.
- An ATT advert should be made as well (batch items together if more than one trope goes up in a day).
In order for a crowner to pass:
- Must have been up for a minimum of a week
- There must be a 2:1 ratio
- If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple extra days to see if any more votes come in
- Once passed, tropes must be indexed on the appropriate NRLEP index
- Should the vote fail, the trope should be indexed on KRLE page
Sex Tropes, Rape and Sexual Harassment Tropes, and Morality Tropes are banned from having RL sections so tropes under those indexes don't need a crowner vote.
As per Real Life Troping, we never trope unscripted real life sports — so sports tropes where RL examples would only apply to those scenarios don't need a crowner vote.
Crowner entries that have already been called will have "(CLOSED)" appended to them — and are no longer open for discussion.
After bringing up a trope for discussion, please wait at least a day for feedback before adding it to the crowner.
NRLEP tag:
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800
LRLEO tag:
%%The following restrictions apply: [list restriction(s) here]
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800
Notes:
- This thread is not for general discussion regarding policies for Real Life sections or crowners. Please take those conversations to this Wiki Talk thread.
- Do not try to overturn previous No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only decisions without a convincing argument.
- As mentioned here, the consensus is that NRLEP warnings in trope page descriptions can use bold text so that they stand out.
- The [[noreallife]] tag doesn't currently work. This is a deprecated tag that was introduced many years ago — originally, it would have displayed a NRLEP warning banner when you edited the page. However, there's been some staff conversation (Feb 2024) about what a new technical solution might look like, so we'd advise against deleting these from pages, at least until we have a decision as to whether it'll be fixed or replaced.
Edited by Mrph1 on May 13th 2024 at 9:30:24 AM
Lost in Space
I was thinking specifically of article-specific subpages when I wrote the referenced ATT post. I've been shot down before on cutting the RL section of the main Awesome Moments page, on the grounds that it is doing no harm and can be curated since it's in one place. That said, it does act as an incentive for tropers to try to put Moments into Creator articles, which is the problem at hand.
edited 15th Jul '15 11:24:12 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
No, the other one.
On Awesome.Real Life (and probably subpages as well; didn't check), as usual, there's a lot of natter and gushing. There's also glorifying violence and lots of examples consisting of attacking others. Now, a lot of those probably had it coming, but that's the sort of things we cut out everywhere else. We don't villanise people.
Check out my fanfiction!
"In distress", my ass.
Calling:
- Psycho Psychologist: Added 14th Jul '15 at 12:17:35 PM, 5.5:1 (13)
- Reality Warper: Added 14th Jul '15 at 12:17:35 PM, 14:1 (15)
Calling to keep RL examples:
- The Dreaded: Added 11th Jul '15 at 10:38:53 AM, 1:1.57 (18)
I'm still waiting for a response to my question about Deader Than Disco. The crowner vote is saying "Kill It with Fire", but there was talk about possibly saving some examples, with no conclusion that I recall (or if there was one, I missed it).
All your safe space are belong to Trump
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
Coming by to support the idea that the trope Villain should be separate from the index Villain Tropes if we want to index tropes often used for villains, instead of different types of villains.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Thank God, I was beginning to think I was just missing some glaringly obvious fact and making myself look like an idiot.
Oversized Garden Ornament
Regarding Deader Than Disco, I think it seems like we have consensus that the crowner should be about cutting the explicit Real Life section.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
"A once-popular work comes to be better known for the backlash against it than for its merits" is the laconic description; surely SOME of the Real Life examples apply.
No, the other one.
This is pretty solidly a villain trope, and not just treating "heel" as an opponent. It also relies on a narrative construct, since sequels don't exist in real life.
It does have one real life example, which can probably be cut for being arguable, but I'd like to avoid a repeat.
Anything to discuss?
edited 19th Jul '15 7:08:27 PM by AnotherDuck
Check out my fanfiction!
I don't see anything to discuss heavily. Not going to add it to the crowner until a new one is called.
edited 19th Jul '15 7:09:50 PM by VeryMelon
"In distress", my ass.
^^^ "A once-popular work comes to be better known for the backlash against it than for its merits"
(emphasis mine)
Real Life is not a "work", barring evidence that there is a supreme being shaping the world.
(Never mind that there's pretty solid evidence that there is one, and his name is Finagle. 
)
edited 20th Jul '15 7:21:46 AM by Nohbody
All your safe space are belong to Trump
Not to mention that Deader Than Disco attracts an awful lot of misuse, especially on the Real Life page. I'd estimate 3/4 of the examples were not really examples, and if we just clean it and leave it alone, it'll end up a mess again.
Oversized Garden Ornament
As has already been noted, the problem with Deader Than Disco is drawing the line between "works" and real-life phenomena, because the "works" obviously include entire genres (Disco music) and also cultural phenomena such as the actual 70's discos themselves (as opposed to modern clubs). And, as an audience reaction, the entire "trope" is in a sense Real Life (it's real people having a reaction).
I think the OP just meant to remove the Real Life section. It's also been mentioned that examples about real people and specific real-life events should go.
Do we need more discussion, and in that case where?
No, the other one.
I think it's a mess, to begin with. I've not seen any trope so close to be pretty much about generic "examples" by definition.
What's real life isn't just what's on the page, nor everything on that page. I don't think cars, technology, and edibles are significantly different from toys and fashion. On the other hand, I think complaining about musicians and comedians is kind of the same as troping creators, which we don't do, as those are considered real life.
And then there are all "examples" that just state that something is less popular than it used to be. Which is only part of the trope. As it says on the page, "The final tell-tale sign is when ridicule, or even hate, comes not just for the thing itself, but for its fans." That part is important. It should be something of ridicule. If it isn't, it's not the trope.
Check out my fanfiction!
Lost in Space
I'm less and less convinced that this is a trope at all, rather than a stock phrase. As we define tropes anyway, it is only possible to have any narrative meaning when it's said by a character In-Universe.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Well with the current Deader Than Disco vote tally it looks like this is probably a non-issue.
Oversized Garden Ornament
Agreed, Deader Than Disco is a mess and at the very least needs a cleanup. It seems to be one of those pages that just attracts complaining.
It also has the complication (which I've pointed out upthread) that many of the "works" are in fact entire genres - the very name of the "trope" is a genre. This means that it invites generic examples, but we can't just apply the normal rule of "no general examples allowed" because an example about an audience reaction to an entire genre (which is what we're discussing here) is really just as specific as one about an audience reaction to an individual work.
I'm beginning to question whether the page should be kept at all. It's not a trope, at least not as written. It's just a page full of examples of unpopular genres and works. Entertaining as it may be, does it really belong here? The site's purpose after all is cataloguing tropes, not what's in and what's out.
Oversized Garden Ornament
On second thought, may I suggest that we remove the crowner question for Deader Than Disco until we can reach consensus about what we're voting for or against?
Is the vote about
- Removing the Real Life section (which leads to inconsistencies - why should examples about cars be removed but toys stay)
- Removing Real Life examples in any section by some (yet to be arrived at) criterion.
- Removing all non-in-universe examples, regardless of section. (which would leave the page almost exampleless, but maybe that's not such a bad thing).
edited 21st Jul '15 1:47:34 AM by GnomeTitan
Of course Deader Than Disco isn't a trope. It is an Audience Reaction. And while personally I think that the website would be better off without Audience Reactions, or at any rate pages full of subjective examples of negative Audience Reactions, the general consensus of the wiki seems to be otherwise.
At minimum, any thing of a political or ideological nature should be cut under Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgment.
Things like cars and toys can be seen as "Works" of a sort. Even a car has some aspects of visual arts.
edited 21st Jul '15 5:12:01 AM by Catbert
Oversized Garden Ornament
I agree that cars are works in a context like this. The problem is that cars are listed under Real Life since they don't fit in any other category.
Regarding Deader Than Disco, I put something about that on the cleanup page. My problem is that it seems like a lot of the examples are just things that aren't popular anymore. I think Deader Than Disco implies that not only is it not popular but it's actively hated. It also attracts a lot of Walls of Text. I wouldn't mind the trope being kept but being limited to no examples.
Oversized Garden Ornament
^Not necessarily hated, I think. It could also be considered out, uncool and/or embarrassing. I agree that it's much stronger than just something not being popular.
"In distress", my ass.
Since Deader Than Disco fails to meet the minimum requirements, and the y/n vote ratio has been dropping since my last post in this thread, I think it's safe to wrap it up, and move on to a new crowner.
Calling to keep RL examples on Deader Than Disco: Added 6th Jul '15 at 07:53:50 PM, 1.27:1.
Being the last item still active on crowner 34, after I send this message I'm going to holler for crowner 35 to be switched in.
Crowners switched per request.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
No, the other one.
Added Sudden Sequel Heel Syndrome.
Check out my fanfiction!
SugarWiki.Awesome Moments has an entire subsection dedicated to Real Life people. Fighteer just said in no uncertain terms that it needs to go when I asked about it in ATT.
Can't axe the thing myself because I'm on vacation, but I thought it should be brought up here to make it official.
If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?