The Catcher In The Rye

The Catcher In The Rye is a story that I had to read when I was in high school. There were points when I felt sick while reading the book, and I'm not sure why. Luckily, I stopped having that reaction after a while. I have to say that True Art Is Incomprehensible when it comes to this book.

Why? Well, Holden Caulfield is totally an Unreliable Narrator. I've heard that there's Misaimed Fandom about this book, but I'm not sure why. Did the author say how Holden was supposed to be intrepreted? I ask this because Alternative Character Interpretation might have been used a little too strongly in the story.

Also, I've heard claims that Holden ended up in a hospital due to tuberculosis. Where did they come from? I thought Holden got put in one due to a Villainous Breakdown or Heroic BSoD.

edited 21st Apr '12 11:15:02 AM by TiggersAreGreat

Oh, Equestria, we stand on guard for thee!

Huh. Is this the first time a thread for Catcher has been made? Curious.

Anyways, I don't know the answer to your first question/comment. It's been a long time since I read Catcher, and I was a bit younger at the time, but I agree, though I think that Holden is a lot more black and white than one would expect. Sure, aspects of him are open to interpretation, but we have a good grasp over the gist of it.

Second, as I recall, he's writing the story from the hospital. I'm pretty sure he was there due to possible tuberculosis, though I might be wrong. Keep in mind that my memory is fairly hazy on the matter. Read the beginning again. I'd do it myself, but my sister has my copy of the book.

edited 22nd Apr '12 2:01:48 PM by FakeCrowley

You know what I hate? Hypocrites. That and obscure self-referential statements.

Read it a few years back. Mostly found it full of teenage angst. Not sure why its regarded so highly. Didn't find it complex or anything.

"You want to see how a human dies? At ramming speed." - Emily Wong.

Read it for English when I was... 15? 16? Something like that.

Didn't seem all that angsty to me, there's a lot of depth to it, but it felt forced (mostly due to having to overanalyse everything for the curriculum).

I read that a while ago because of its status as a banned book. I kind of wanted to see what the big deal was. The thing is, I still don't know. I didn't see anything really controversial or risque, and it didn't really strike me as particularly deep or compelling. It was just a boring, plotless slog with a dull protagonist who really just ticked me off a little. /two cents/

I generally enjoyed it when I read it, what - 5-6 years ago? Anyway, I could picture myself agreeing with the narrator about many things, mainly because there are many things wrong with society. But he still struck me as pretty gloomy, even though I was about the same age as him when I read the book. But overall, it was an interesting book and the point of it wasn't to agree with Holden about everything, but rather to see his own flaws as well as those he finds in other people. I can respect that. I dislike it when the protagonist is too perfect or the author makes him out to be right about everything.

Please don't feed the trolls!

Yes, Holden is godawfully whiny. I really recoiled when I heard he was supposed to be representative of teenagers everywhere. But I could deal with a whiny protagonist if there was a plot for him to whine about. Everything from the point where he drops out to his visit with Phoebe is just... a thing happens, Holden comments on how phony it is, an unrelated thing happens, Holden comments on how lousy it is, rinse and repeat.

Hail Martin Septim!

Yeah, I've heard a number of people say that they want to punch Holden Caulfield in the face...probably because of all the Wangst.

I myself didn't feel that desire. I just felt pity for Holden. He just comes off as a Jerkass Woobie to me. Sure, a number of things that happened to him were his fault, but he sounds like he has some serious issues.

Also, when he said to Phoebe about how that one guy was having Holden and another person find his initials he carved somewhere in the bathroom years ago, I'm sitting there think "Are you kidding me?" I mean, what kind of person cares about something as trivial as initials he carved in the bathroom a number of years ago? The guy also bragged about how when you look back at your high school days, you'll think that they were the best years of your life, which Holden seriously doubts.

Sure, your days in high school are the best years of your life...if you look at them through a Nostalgia Filter. I don't look back on those days through an NF. I can promise you, they were not the best years of my life, and anyone who says they were are just full of it!

Oh, Equestria, we stand on guard for thee!

Catcher in the Rye can be described with one word: lame. It's a big ball of self-important meaningless fluff. People claim to have personal revelations reading it (including my dad), but, I can't believe there's anything in the book you haven't already learned simply by living to the age of fifteen.

"Religion isn't the cause of wars, it's the excuse." —Mycroft Next

Speaking as a non-native speaker who read the book voluntarily in his twenties, I think the hatedom The Catcher In The Rye seems to have is strongly connected to it being compulsory reading in schools.

Holden is telling the story from a mental hospital. He doesn't actually say how he got there. Tuberculosis is not mentioned. — The implication is that he had some kind of full-scale mental breakdown.

@Doma Doma, I think you may be misled by Holden Caulfield’s narrative. Holden Caulfield is actually in a much greater crisis than he lets on (possibly greater than he realizes himself). The self-assuredness of his narrative is fake. He’s in fact quite desperate.

I think the line of thinking that goes "Catcher in the Rye is a book about a typical teenage crisis" or general "teenage angst" or even "teenage rebellion" is a false track. He’s not such a “typical teenager” actually (though I wouldn’t know what or how a “typical teenager” is, as teenagers are no more similar to each other than adults.)

It's not fully revealed how Holden Caulfield's problems started — you'll remember that he had a habit of not finishing school — but he mentions almost off-handedly that his younger brother Allie died from leukemia some years before. This is actually a rather shocking revelation, though Holden talks in a very factual and distanced way about it, while at the same time, he speaks very fondly of Allie. The implication is that Holden was very deeply affected by Allie's death, more than his siblings obviously, and never has "gotten over it". Bottom line: His refusal to "grow up" (as seen in him associating 'behaving grown-up' with "being phony", and in his unwillingness to complete school, even though he's intelligent enough) is rooted in his inability to "let go" of Allie who died as a child, fearing that "growing up" means forgetting (and thus, betraying) Allie.

We never meet Holden's parents, but they seem not to be particularly close to him. It might be that they also are suffering more from Allie's death than is apparent.

I think it’s also safe to say that there is an autobiographical dimension to Catcher in the Rye. Holden is actually a good observer; someone who could be a writer. He never thinks about becoming one (even though his older brother is already a screenwriter) which goes to show how little aware he is of what his strong points are, or what he wants to do with his life.

OK, that was quite an essay, but that's about it.

One could say it is a book *about* teenagers, among other things, but I don’t think it is specifically a book *for* teenagers. The expectation that, as teenagers (and only because they are teenagers), they would/should identify with Caulfield, is quite wrong and (I’m sure) throws many teenage readers off.

edited 1st May '12 6:19:24 AM by LordGro

Let's just say and leave it at that.

You know, that completely slipped my mind. I was compiling a mental list of things that Holden could actually stand, and I came up with Janie, Phoebe, his hat, and that one kid who committed suicide. I remember this brother only vaguely even now that you've brought him up. But it's entirely possible this is my English teacher's fault and not the book's. That particular teacher was one of the Everyone Is Jesus in Purgatory ilk, except you could tell he didn't believe his own baloney.

Hail Martin Septim!

I found the book pretty boring, though I did get a chuckle out of how, despite repeatedly saying how much he hates movies, Holden still goes to the movies twice over the course of a single weekend.

I couldn't get past the second chapter. If I ever met Holden in real life I'd take a baseball bat to his knees.

Trump delenda est

Yeah, I noticed how Holden seems to divide people into two camps:

1. The camp that feels that Holden should be given a No-Holds-Barred Beatdown.
2. The camp that feels that Holden should be pitied.

I go with the second camp, myself.

Do you think that Holden is an Author Avatar? I mean, think about it. JD Salinger said that he'd love to play as Holden if The Catcher In The Rye is ever made into a movie. Salinger was quite the Reclusive Artist, too, and TCITR seems to be a story of his life and not just Holden's. Holden gives the impression that he has at least one mental disorder and trauma to deal with, which goes beyond normal teenager issues, and Salinger might have had some mental disorders and traumas himself!

Oh, Equestria, we stand on guard for thee!

Never read this book. Never saw the crashing need to, and the reclusive author shtick did not make me any more likely to pick up a copy. And I am not sure I am missing much.

I thought it was a fairly interesting book to read. My sister LOVED the book, but I'm not exactly in her boat. Very oddly written. Purposely written without, well, much emotion in the prose. It's interesting.

Read my stories!

My mother wanted to name my younger brother Holden. That got shot down very quickly.

It's a nice name, in my opinion.

Read my stories!

x5I read the phrase "play as Holden" and suddenly "Catcher In The Rye the Roleplaying Game" popped into my head. Which would be wrong on so many levels.

edited 7th May '12 8:38:28 AM by tricksterson

Trump delenda est

I was Holden out for this one.◊

With that out of the way, damn, I knew I'd hate reading this thread. I really hate reading about people who hate the book and Holden. I read it voluntarily and quite enjoyed it. Maybe it has to do with the fact that he reminded me of a person who's very dear to me. Maybe it has to do with the fact that I assume that a book that is widely considered a classic has to be good. Maybe it was just the fact that I actually thought it was good.

I always seemed to be the only one who enjoyed reading most of the books we had to read. Or at least, they always got a reaction out of me. Well, the Handmaid's Tale was boring, but that was intentional, and the boringness was properly alienating, so I can't blame it. Lord of the Flies was highly exciting, particularly the finale. Then there was that one book that I destroyed after reading it because I hated it so much. I guess that was a reaction, too.

Point is, stop being pretentious in not being pretentious?

... Something like that.

New Zealand loves their Holdens, so many a schoolboy picked up this book and was very, very confused.

I like the book. I think a lot of people don't like Holden because he's not an idealized character. However, I like reading his perspective because of his flaws, since they are understandable ones. He's clearly in over his head, and he's an extreme version of the weaknesses that a lot of people feel when growing up. He still wants to live in an idealized, overly moral world where he can just be happy, and he just doesn't realize that such a place doesn't exist. It's a selfish perspective, but an understandable one.

Also, some of the parts are hilarious, such as his essay on the Egyptians.

edited 12th May '12 12:17:35 PM by Scardoll

Fight. Struggle. Endure. Suffer. LIVE.

I read it few years ago. I don't know why, but I liked it. I think it had to do with the fact that I was lacking in motivation, lethargic, and irritable. My mental state improved a lot over the years and if I revisit it, well, I still might like it because it is one of the first unillustrated and unabridged books I ever came across. It helps that it is a pretty short and easy to read.

I'm a (socialist) professional writer serializing a WWII alternate history webnovel.

x4 The Handmaid's Tale was supposed to be boring? Then it failed miserably, I found it fascinating.

Trump delenda est

When we read it in class, everyone was raging about how the protagonist describes stuff like the umbrellas and whatnot. It certainly wasn't high on the "stuff happening" scale and had a pretty dreary and uncomfortable mood throughout, but I also didn't dislike it. The reason she describes such mundane details is because, well, that's all she's got. The descriptions feel long-winded, pointless and gloomy because that's what her life is like. That's what I meant.

edited 30th May '12 1:57:09 PM by Fawriel