Ahh. Still not sure how that made it out of YKTTW.

Just finished up getting the mentions of mooks out of the mess. I will add them to the copy at the bottom.

Ace that makes quite a bit of sense actually.

Sandbox.Instant Death Bullet Added the mook examples on a line below the mookless examples. Some of the examples that have questions about characters or just mooks would be mook examples in their own right. Several of the examples are kind of vague though and several likely would not survive a close inspection but may be salvageable with a few more details.

edited 16th Jun '12 8:17:42 PM by TuefelHundenIV

"[Kiss of Death] is a specific plot device that would work on anyone not just mooks."

A specific plot device could be made of a mook being killed instantly by a single shot. It sort of wouldn't be a trope otherwise.

Aversions only ("gunshot is not instantly fatal"?) all around, perhaps.

edited 17th Jun '12 1:57:43 AM by rodneyAnonymous

I object to any attempts to say that mooks aren't this trope. That's arbitrary and the uses are related.

You seem to have reached an impasse with debate. Make a crowner and decide how you're going to define/split up this trope that way.

edited 17th Jun '12 7:28:12 AM by ccoa

Crowner's up. Feel free to add options.

Let's get a few more votes.

5-1 in favour and this has been up for a couple weeks I doubt any of the other options are going to catch up.

Calling crowner: remove the aversions.

Is there anywhere to move them, or should they be deleted outright?

Quick question what about the last TRS effort for this thread. That never got finished either.

So is anyone who wanted to delete the line and then clean it up actually going to do any work on this? So far the only thing done has been deletng the line.

Also what about the last TRS trip that never got done? The main blurb is slowly getting worse with additional justifications in one way or another and more info that belongs on a proper useful notes page.

I didn't hear back from CCOA for quite some time via pm or here so I pm'ed Lu 127. She said to go ahead and go through with both TRS decisions.

The first one was to remove useful notes cruft and move it to a YKTTW created last time by Deboss to house the info to be sorted out for use in a Useful Notes Page. The description will likely need to be tweaked after the cruft is removed.

The second TRS is this one. The one line was removed but it doesn't look like anyone did any of the grunt work with the aversions removal yet.

Any volunteers or other help before I do it myself?

Here is the YKTTW Deboss started. It has some good comments going already just needs to be finished fleshing out.

edited 27th Oct '12 7:27:46 AM by TuefelHundenIV

Ok here is the new description cleaned up of the Useful Notes Material. The description was partially rewritten by a mod after I asked for there input compared to the original.

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In fiction, almost all gunshot wounds tend to be instantly fatal or merely inconvenient. This usually happens due to plot convenience. If the character being shot is a Mook, Red Shirt, or other nameless extra expect them to be dead on the spot. Heroes and Villains alike usually have some form of Plot Armor protection and may instead get a more drawn out death scene later in the story if they are not killed instantly.

This trope is largely responsible for the tendency of Mooks and Red Shirts to come from the Imperial Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy. If the hero or villain were killed or critically wounded in their first gun fight early in the story it would have a drastic effect on the outcome of the story. Expect them to suffer Only A Flesh Wound vs a crippling , lethal, or incapacitating injury.

This trope tends to appear mostly in Action Genre media. In more realistic or gritty action based media, the victim may take longer to die.

I'm not sure whether this paragraph makes sense.

It ties in with the mook and redshirt inability to hit the broadside of a barn because if trained soldiers were realistically portrayed the hero and/or a villain would likely be dead, crippled, or fatally wounded in the first fire fight.

If for whatever reason they are shot by a mook or redshirt they are very likely to suffer a flesh wound. In most cases the hero and villain alike are generally protected by plot armor which leads to flesh wounds or not getting shot at all.

But that's sort of self-contradictory - it goes from "this trope is why mooks can't hit the hero" to "this trope doesn't apply to main characters, period".

And generally, I don't think that kind of "this is why this other trope exists" speculation is needed.

I am not seeing the this trope doesn't apply to main characters ever anywhere. I see where it points out how it is commonly used and why. The first paragraph points out heroes and villains tend to have more drawn out death scenes if they are not killed instantly where mooks, redshirts, and bystanders frequently get cut down on the spot.

It pretty much perfectly describes how this gets used in any number of films especially in action films where your more likely to see a gun fight.

Pretty much a perfect example of what happens in any given action film.

Die Hard Hans is mortally wounded but the hapless mook gets his brains blown out.

Dirty Harry ending That bullet would have likely crippled his arm and left him rolling around in pain.

On and on. Heroes and Villains typically don't suffer from instant death bullet in general and get more protracted death scenes at the end. They are protected by plot armor up to that point. However they can die instantly. Angel Eyes the villain of the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly gets an instant bullet death for example.

(sorry took so long got distracted looking at gun fight scenes)

I agree that this trope doesn't normally apply to main characters - that's why I'd prefer it if that stuff about Imperial Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy was removed.

If the shooting skill comment is chopped not that I really have issue with that here is what we have left. It works in general. I have more wordy version in a pm if you think we need to beef up the blurb a bit more.

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In fiction, almost all gunshot wounds tend to be instantly fatal or merely inconvenient. This usually happens due to plot convenience. If the character being shot is a Mook, Red Shirt, or other nameless extra expect them to be dead on the spot. Heroes and Villains alike usually have some form of Plot Armor protection and may instead get a more drawn out death scene later in the story if they are not killed instantly.

This trope tends to appear mostly in Action Genre media. In more realistic or gritty action based media, the victim may take longer to die.

edited 8th Nov '12 1:06:42 AM by TuefelHundenIV

Heroes not getting hit does relate to this. Since the protagonist must survive, the writer has to judge which option preserves Willing Suspension of Disbelief better, Imperial Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy or Only a Flesh Wound.

In a work that uses Instant Death Bullet a lot, it becomes less believable for that one guy to get shot without dying. Thus the hero will not get hit much, if at all.

Or we can just use Plot Armor which is what is really going in the case of heroes not being killed or badly wounded. OF course there could be a point where they lose that plot armor.

Ok Plot Armor is the reason the heroes and villains typically don't get injured, maimed, or killed. The Marksman trope along with other related tropes are the mechanisms in which it is demonstrated.

They are not injured because the plot does not call for it in the vast majority of cases, hence we we do not need the marksmanship trope and the Plot Armor entry works on it's own.

So anyone got anything else to add? One diagree with two agree.

If you want to change something please show your work.

Got in touch with a mod. The statement is to put Initial rewrite up. The rewrite of it was "nitpicking". So tomorrow I will put it up and get to cleaning up the entry.

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This one

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In fiction, almost all gunshot wounds tend to be instantly fatal or merely inconvenient. This usually happens due to plot convenience. If the character being shot is a Mook, Red Shirt, or other nameless extra expect them to be dead on the spot. Heroes and Villains alike usually have some form of Plot Armor protection and may instead get a more drawn out death scene later in the story if they are not killed instantly.

This trope is largely responsible for the tendency of Mooks and Red Shirts to come from the Imperial Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy. If the hero or villain were killed or critically wounded in their first gun fight early in the story it would have a drastic effect on the outcome of the story. Expect them to suffer Only A Flesh Wound vs a crippling , lethal, or incapacitating injury.

This trope tends to appear mostly in Action Genre media. In more realistic or gritty action based media, the victim may take longer to die.

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