The Place for Purging Porn and Pedo-Pandering (AKA P5 flag evaluations)

Even if the version with sex scenes is no good, the page can still be kept due to the All Ages version. It'd just need to be cleaned a bit.

I just looked at re-take 1 and from the thumbnails it has less then twenty pages of sex out of 91 pages and the sex is typical of an eva dojin hell its vanilla by dojin standards.

update book two: less then ten pages of sex out of 94, Auska is wearing her uniform this time.

update book three: 86 pages but the sex is the same as last time except Auska is wearing her dress.

update book 4: 194 pages with one page of non-explicit sex.

update book zero: 41 pages two with nudity.

update book ~after~: 2 page of sex out of 108.

By the way I went by the thumbnails so my count may be of a bit.

edited 28th Jun '12 7:17:57 PM by shadis

I haven't read the All Ages version of RE-TAKE, but I have it downloaded...if you want, I can make that a project for the weekend. Just based on having read the original, my vote would be to limit the page to the All Ages version...the original is very much Plot With Porn, but it's Asuka X Shinji at their canon ages and I dunno if doujinshis fall into the 16-and-under fanfic rule or not.

Oh, and if you decide to read the original, don't bother with part 1.5. Trust me, it ain't worth it.

edited 28th Jun '12 7:57:47 PM by Willbyr

I was wondering when we'd get here. I still have a copy of the All-Ages version on my hard drive, and here's the most objectionable content in Volume 1 (spoilers!)

Pages 70-74: Asuka is hugging Shinji while naked (Shinji is still fully clothed). Shots are framed so no naughty bits are showing; the most you ever see is a full-body shot from behind (including Asuka's buttocks), otherwise it's entirely arms, shoulders, and the head. In the original, this led into a sex scene; here, the sex is implied but cuts to Rei walking in the street after a silhouette panel of Shinji and Asuka kissing while Asuka pushes him down.

Page 81: EoE!Asuka drops the top of her plugsuit to reveal the scarring on her chest to Shinji, including her naked breast (it's a side-shot). The nipple is drawn but the scene is probably not meant to titillate, as Asuka is berating Shinji for leaving her in the post-Third Impact world.

Page 84: Shinji wakes up Catapult Nightmare-style; he is still nude from having sex but like before he is only shown from the side/back (including his naked buttocks) and with everything at legs/below still covered up.

That's it for Volume 1; I don't remember what objectionable content is in Volume 2 and 3 but I think what's above is the worst of it.

I will definitely say that we should probably limit ourselves to the All-Ages version, especially considering Shinji and Asuka are still 14 in the doujinshi. While the sex in the original isn't very widespread, and (in my opinion) not all that exciting, the fact that they're still young teenagers squicks me out just a little.

edited 28th Jun '12 8:46:07 PM by Linhasxoc

Isn't the fanfic age limit about the Fanfic Recommendations pages only? I thought that rule only really existed so we wouldn't need to scan through hundreds of random fics to see which one is bad or not.

If the work has a page on its own, it should be judged as a 'work' now. Basically, Re T Ake probably shouldn't be on the Fanfic recommendation subpage of Neon Genesis Evangelion, but can safely be on its own work page, once the P5 judge it safe.

I think you're right about the "established" bit (I remember getting it wrong when we were discussing KHSAS) - no works containing sex between characters under 16 should be recommended, but if it has a works page, it should probably be treated under the same guidelines as a licensed / distributed work.

Somebody flagged Bioshock 2. I zapped it.

Mods: Can you see who is flagging these, or is that an Eddie only thing?

edited 28th Jun '12 8:55:30 PM by Discar

Okay, since there's an All-Ages version of it, I'll give RE-TAKE an angelhead. Heck, I might even give it a read myself; it seems interesting enough.

@Discar: You know, we would really benefit from having to provide a reason for flagging a work/trope...

We have been asking for that for a while now hell just a check box would help with the misclicks.

And this one looks like another misclick unless the person flagged it because of the little sisters in which case they are an idiot or troll.

Indeed.

edited 28th Jun '12 9:15:21 PM by shadis

I think requiring a reason would also help point us in the direction of where the objectionable material actually is. Sometimes in longer works it's not immediately apparent.

I support the idea of flaggers having to point out the location of the objectionable content before being accepted for the flag list.

Just curious, where is the list with all the works that are flagged? I found it (somehow) before, but I don't remember where or how I did.

Here. For reference it's the voting tool under th P5 Decisions and Announcements thread.

edited 28th Jun '12 10:11:25 PM by tdgoodrich1

We can see who flags stuff, but not when you zap it off the list. If you suspect a troll you need to wait until one of us sees the list or holler about it.

Anyway, I really need to start pulling my weight following that last faux pas, so I'm having a look at Iron Virgin Jun - I'm starting with what I assume is the official dub (shhh). One OVA, 45 min long, shouldn't take too long. EDIT: Found the manga scanlation. 1 volume. Here goes nothing.

^note If anyone's interested in verifying, the manga's on Mangareaders (under Tetsu no Shojo Jun) and the OVA's on Veoh.

Manga:

• All relevant characters are at least 18.
• Demographic: Seinen.
• Serialised in: Big Comic Spirits (Also runs / ran: Maison Ikkoku, Sai Kano, Uzumaki, Yoiko^note that one about the 5th-grader with the body of an adult)
• A few pages of nudity per chapter. Nipples shown but no genitalia.
• Two pages involving peeing into a commode. Again, genitalia not shown.
• One splash page involving animals and a sexualised pose - this is more for symbolism than an actual depiction of bestiality.
• One depiction of a threesome. Genitalia obscured by scenery.
• One sex scene at the end of the manga. Several pages long, genitalia obscured by symbolic imagery.

Anime:

• All relevant characters are at least 18.
• Licensed by Media Blasters, dubbed by Anime Works.
• Rated 16+.
• Main character is in a swimsuit (or whatever that thing is) about half the time.
• 2 counts of attempted rape involving a drill-shaped codpiece. (I am not making this up - the assailants are wearing codpieces with a turtle, a spider, a duck and a drill. There's no way you can take this as anything but comedy.) No nudity shown.

Conclusion: The anime is much cleaner than the manga, but I don't think either one falls afoul of our guidelines. It does call Go Nagai's personal preferences into question, though.

edited 29th Jun '12 1:13:10 AM by Pyrite

On the reason for flagging thing: Until FE gets around to install the necessary coding, can we just use the discussion pages, and zap any flag that lacks such statement?

Also, Franchise.Star Wars needs to be zapped from the tool. No way a series that popular could be paedopandering or porn.

edited 29th Jun '12 2:45:40 AM by SeptimusHeap

Yeah, RE-TAKE All-Ages is actually a better story, too, so we really wouldn't be losing anything if we limited the page to it.

I'll just say that's a really bad assumption to be making, and move on.

Was that really necessary?

@Komodin: My post?

Popularity is not part of the P5 criteria. Nor does it in any way indicate the content of a particular work.

That should be apparent to everyone here, but if people are going to not see that...well, someone has to point out the problem with it.

I'm not saying flagging Star Wars pages isn't stupid - it is - but that's not a valid argument for why.

edited 29th Jun '12 4:45:33 AM by TotemicHero

Actually, that's wrong. Mainstreamness and popularity are part of the criteria for what initially gets flagged.

I wouldn't say that mainstreamness and popularity are direct criteria, so much as something being mainstream and popular is a really good indicator there's nothing cut-worthy about it and shouldn't be flagged.

edited 29th Jun '12 6:06:00 AM by KuroBaraHime

If you think that, Pyrite, I can only imagine how you'll feel after reading some of Go Nagai's other works...

And I don't consider popularity any form of criteria, considering several "mainstream" and "popular" works have been flagged and/or cut before.

edited 29th Jun '12 6:54:39 AM by Raidouthe21st

Scootatrap is both porn and pedopandering. Really weird and disturbing porn.

Trust me, P5, you don't really want to read it.

But, a summary: Rainbow Dash is an abusive lesbian who's dating Scootaloo's mother. She smacks Scootaloo (who is School Age, while Rainbow Dash is an adult) around and then goes to rape her, only to find that the formerly female Scootaloo is now male. Scootaloo then kicks Rainbow Dash in the head, ties her up and rapes her multiple times, dumps Rainbow back at her place, and crashes Rainbow's car into a ditch before taking a crap in the drivers seat.

I don't really think it's intended to titillate, but it's so NSFW that it isn't funny. It's also only about 3 pages long, so if any of the P5 want to read it, they can.

I would vote for it to be Cutlisted.

edited 29th Jun '12 7:08:29 AM by NineThePuma

@shima: If that's the case, then the current implementation is on the verge of violating TINSTAN, since all works are supposed to be treated equally under the other rules and guidelines regardless of popularity.

We might want to re-evaluate the criteria of flagging pages, especially given the recent wave of suspicious flaggings. (I agree the P5 assessment that this is starting to look like the work of a troll.)