Creating an evil mother

So I have this idea for an evil single mother who tries to create villains out of her children. So far I want her to be a complete monster, recommended tropes?

edited 16th Apr '12 9:02:10 PM by TikForTat

• She would most likely use conditioning to make "Well Done, Son" Guy's out of her children.
• Why Did You Make Me Hit You? is very recommended for subtle, passive aggressive manipulation.
• Maybe a sweet, motherly demeanor or a very well done faked one, in other words, Affably Evil / Faux Affably Evil: "You know what I like, as a mom? Seeing one of my boys grow up and slaughter him some innocents! A Real Man Is a Killer after all..."
• Constantly playing around with loyalties by making a big brother have Big Brother Instinct and then instill a need to, when big brother gets hurt, the little brothers go fricking nuts.
• She would also need to escape notice, maybe play the grieving mother and instill a distrust in the outside world in her kids.

...I just don't have the energy anymore.

Depends on what you mean by "evil mother"

Is is a mother who just happens to be evil? (LOTS of examples IRL, being evil doesn't mean pregnancy proof.)

It it someone who is a mother to evil? (Even Bad Men HAVE Mamas)

A woman who happens to be evil, however the fact that she is a single mother plays a major role, since she is the one raising the children.

You mean like the Mother in the Alfred Hitcock movie: Psyho

Meh, seems easy enough. A bitch with a kid.

What more do you need?

There is more to a character than evil/good, even when using the black/white scale of morality, "bitch with a kid" is way too broad of a definition. Nick the Swing, for example, gave pretty good advise on building a parent who will appear to be evil as hell and tries to turn his kids into the Antichrist.

I really don't like Complete Monster antagonists much. What's wrong with giving her an understandable motivation (while still being an evil bitch)? For example, she could be a Knight Templar Parent who wants her kids to be utterly ruthless because she truly believes that that's the only way for them to succeed in the world.

I'm sorry if it seems like I'm telling you what you should or should not write, but giving her a motivation that's somewhat understandable will make it easier to write her than just sticking a number of villainous traits together.

It's because I've never actually seen a complete monster redeemed.

Usually villains who find atonement or redemption are either tragic ones or sympathetic ones, I want to try with one who is a complete monster, but for that purpose I want to make her that monster. Before I could find a way to salvage her WITHOUT a heroic sacrifice, I need to have an idea of all the stuff she can be.

A somewhat fun project of mine, write a story in which every villain is either redeemed or receives some form of a happy ending. I'm just hitting somewhat of a snag on the mother.

Fair enough. I quite like that idea.

Still, even a Complete Monster needs a motivation. Once you decide what's driving her to her actions, the character will be a lot easier to develop.

@nrjxll: You don't have to respond if you don't want to and you don't want to say why.

@OP: What happened to the father(s) involved?

edited 17th Apr '12 9:30:08 AM by chihuahua0

Mights as well just give it all.

The mother was the wife of a third born prince of a world/galaxy (not exactly sure on this one yet) domination seeking empire. The Prince's brothers died on the battlefield and he become the heir of said empire. As things would have it, he died as well, leaving the throne to his wife.

Thing is that the woman never expected such duties, nor is she able to handle the power (yes, I know, there is a trope I would like to avoid for that, but I wanted a mother, so I'm stuck with it), as you guessed it, complete power corrupts completely and by the time we are not using flashbacks she is already a complete monster.

As for the children, she may have four. The first one and the eldest would remember her before her corruption and would have retired somewhere away from his/her mother, not wanting to associate with the person she's become or the thing she is doing. The second one would be living with her and do her bidding, however since she wasn't evil/as evil before his seventh/eight birthday, he/she would have an inner struggle and a very annoying consciousness. The third and forth would be twins who sucked evil right off the mother's breast.

After she is defeated and loses all her power, she starts to, well, think back to happier times. Eventually she realize what exactly she's done and wishes to make up for it. Effectively making it so losing everything actually did her some good, and being defeated by the hero isn't exactly a bad thing.

All of this is very sketchy of course and up to for revision, but I want the audience to love to hate her, I want her to be a terrible mother, a terrible human being, a terrible ruler and overall not a person you want to end up around. It would make the redemption/atonement a fun thing to do.

"It's because I've never actually seen a complete monster redeemed."

That's probably because Complete Monster is defined as "a villain utterly lacking in redeeming features" who has taken no "actions toward redemption" and must "show no regret for their crimes". A redeemed complete monster is a contradiction in terms; if they can be redeemed, they were never a complete monster in the first place. It's already a vague enough trope without being applied to cases where from the definition it absolutely does not fit. You've never seen one redeemed for the same reason that you've never seen an empty truck full of bricks.

Totally agree.

I think what you should be shooting for is a control freak, then. If it's the way she's found to try to "cope" with the situation (and it does kind of work), then she'll probably also turn that onto her kids. After all, in her mind, they'll have to inherit this <deleted> job in the future (if they survive, that is), and she's going to make damned sure they're tougher than she was to take it. All the better to help them survive when the rest didn't, maybe, in her mind.

Whether you play this as "I could have done this shitty job even better without you dragging me down: suck it up!" or "I love you, so I have to hurt you to help you" is up to you.

edited 18th Apr '12 6:11:40 PM by Euodiachloris

I disagree, troupes are more akin to guidelines, not a rulebook. Personally I would prefer NOT to give her any redeeming qualities until her defeat. After that she can start having some revelations about how vile of a person she was.

Um, one of the major defining traits for Complete Monster is "irredeemable villain" - that's what the trope is. Saying that one is "redeemable" is literally an oxymoron. Tropes Are Flexible only up until the point where they cease to actually be a trope.

I'm sorry for butting in like this, but it's a hideously misused trope and it really annoys me to see that, even after years and years of repair attempts, people still misunderstand it.

What I'm saying isn't that the text of the Complete Monster page proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is impossible to have a dislikeable villain character who gets redeemed. What I'm saying is that if your villain character gets redeemed, it means that they don't fit the Complete Monster trope. I'm sure it's tempting to label all your characters with the coolest-sounding trope names, but while that's not an efficient way of writing in general it's even worse when you're labeling them tropes that don't even apply.

Exactly!

The whole point to a Complete Monster is that they either could be redeemed, but consciously choose not to be, or don't notice that this is an actual option for them even if it's waved in their faces. Redemption is not an option. Even one of the best Monsters ever written, Johan Liebert wasn't redeemed in the end, for all he played with the trope so much, you would be forgiven for thinking it broke. Getting reset to a mental-age of about 8 doesn't count as redemption but a form of punishment or justice. At the same time, that conclusion acted as a fulfilment of what he wanted in a way he hadn't actively planned, but certainly instigated. It does also count as a major tearjerker with a slight heart-warming feel, though. Thing is: the trope was not broken, but just played out spectacularly.

Ergo: you want another trope, unless you take the tip from him. Knock yourself out: Villains.

Might I, however, recommend the House Specials of Evil Matriarch, Alpha Bitch or God Save Us from the Queen! with this week's side-order of The Baroness? They can all be pretty darned monstrous, but with reasons.

edited 20th Apr '12 8:26:38 AM by Euodiachloris

Or you could write a complex character organically instead of trying to build one out of tropes.

That was not my meaning. You can use any villainous-type as a goal-post, but write somebody multi-layered who crosses boundaries even you don't think of. Tropes Are Tools, etc.

Well, obviously. But I'm sick of trying to get that into people's heads, so this time I just wanted to make sure they were using said tropes correctly.

nrjxll, I fully understand. Free hug!

Too many people read Complete Monster as "horrible villain that's cool, too"... and don't see the rest of the trope.

Well if I'm messing the use of the trope, I'm messing the trope. As I said, I consider it a guideline not a rule, I won't change the character to fit the trope.

Thanks for the advice.

That makes me feel much more optimistic about whatever it is you're writing.

That's how you do it.

As for this Complete Monster -discussion, it would be interesting if a monster villain acknowledged the possibility of reforming and then explained, intellectually or in emotional heat, why they don't see it as a viable option. Of course, this needs to be written carefully so as not to slip into whiny 'In my points all the Jedi are evil' -territory.