Series/ Ben 10 Omniverse

I'm pretty sure it was going to be a deliberate homage to Venom. Evil counterpart to the hero, total murderous psychopath, has a scary monster form, refuses to take responsibility for his actions and blames the hero for ruining his life...yet ultimately becomes a dark anti-hero and agrees to not bug the hero if the hero doesn't bug him. The bad boy who absorbs metals and falls for Gwen...yeah, that probably wasn't what they wanted (in fact, I'm pretty sure there's a video where one of MOA says at a con that he was disappointed in how Kevin was handled in the sequels, specifically citing Badass Decay, more evidence that they wanted an anti-hero Kevin with more edge. Again, like Venom.)

Edit: Video's gone but I found a transcript of what was said. Incidentally, it was none other than Duncan Rouleau who said it too. He also was the one who leaked the info about a Gwen spin-off being talked about (the one where Charmcaster would have completed her turn).

DR: He had started off… I’ll give you the whole… trajectory. It was originally Kevin 11 was his name and he was supposed to have an Omnitrix. Because Ben could only do ten characters. But then once we went to Ben 10,000 and the Ultimate characters, uh, that was kind of dropped. He was gonna have… his Omnitrix went to eleven. And so… but he was gonna be evil. But, uh, and a little bit of an older brother. That was where it initiated. So then he became kind of the bad influence, like the… “Hey, come on over and let’s use our powers for… whatever we want! Whenever we want!” And then felt betrayed by Ben, because he… he got out of hand. Then in the, uh…the Ultimate stuff, he was cool but I gotta – I always felt he was under-utilized in a way, you know, for bein’ the badass that he was supposed to be, he was kind of a little tepid.”

So there it is. Anti-hero Kevin was supposed to be more of a badass-type than what we got.

edited 18th Jul '16 12:12:25 AM by Isaac_Heller

I actually don't get from these texts any suggestions that Kevin and Charmcaster were suppose to ever reform, maybe except some early stages when they were planned. Just that they were suppose to be foils.

I dont know, Charmcaster never have the same feeling of evil as Hex(who could be pretty nightfuel when handle right) but Kevin is diferent chararter, he was totally psychopath and Ben have nothing but disgust as him, I can imagine some sort of piece....maybe.

I honestly don't know if this whole thing is true or if Duncan is lying through his teeth (though if he IS telling the truth, this makes for a nice jab to the fans complaining that Kevin's reform was an insult to Man of Action), but I do have to agree with Duncan regardless: Kevin's redemption arc was rather poorly handled in the sequels and had much more potential.

I doubt he's lying since Rouleau has always been pretty open and honest with fans, including about his opinion on stuff like Kevin's handling in the other shows. And I agree with him too, I would have much preferred an anti-hero Kevin that still felt and acted like himself rather than an entirely different character. For someone like Kevin to reach the point of being Ben's best friend and Gwen's boyfriend, it needs to happen with a character arc, not with the flip of a switch like what happened in Alien Force.

I actually don't get from these texts any suggestions that Kevin and Charmcaster were suppose to ever reform, maybe except some early stages when they were planned. Just that they were suppose to be foils.

The question he answered was specifically if they were meant to become anti-heroes all along, or just remain villains, and he said yes, they were supposed to be the anti-hero foils to Ben and Gwen. Maybe "reform" is a strong word since I doubt their personalities would have changed much, but it does clarify why the later shows made Kevin a teammate to Ben and Gwen and Charmcaster an occupant of the Heel–Face Revolving Door (which would have stopped if Gwen had gotten her show.)

edited 18th Jul '16 9:03:17 AM by Isaac_Heller

To be far, Kevin flashback in alien force is pretty damn good, it explain nicely how Kevin turn good and I enjoy a lot, unfortunaly that was pretty much to late as him move from psycho to gwen boyfriend

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DffWEfarLxk

here it is: the trailer for the new Ben 10

Okay...So far I see nothing horrible, but nothing that looks good either. If anything it at least it looks like more light-hearted take on what's show suppose to be like Be Cool, Scooby Doo rather then crazy goody nonsense with familiar faces like Teen Titans Go. Still, let's take a deeper look.

Is it just me or do all CN shows looks the same these says with similar simple rounded designs?

Ben's design I kinda like(his eye shade is oddly detailed) but Gwen....looks really weird. I would never guess it's her if I didn't knew it. She also seems to have new actress, but it's too early to say anything. Diamondhead also looks off, though I'm not sure why.

Good lord, will Ben always shout random 'Yeah's while transforming?

So, Iceman. They just treat Diamondhead as Iceman.

And now that D-head stands next to Gwen, I can tell that he really badly mashes with art-style.

Also action and animation isn't very exciting. There aren't really any jokes. It was just kind dull, to be honest.

It's really more like a clip.

That said; I do not like the visual style.

Is it just me or do all CN shows looks the same these says with similar simple rounded designs?

Funny, I thought the same thing; the artstyle looks less like Ben 10 and more like Steven Universe. Which is a great show mind you (well.... I think. I only saw a few episodes that didn't really impress me, but people keep telling it's great later on), but it doesn't really fit with that kind of show. Especially since they still detail Ben's and Gwen's eyes as Manga-like yet keep everyone else with just black points as pupils, making it look like Ben is going around in a show different than his own.

So far nothing impressive indeed, but if I have ONE positive thing to say about it, it's that Ben actually is saving people, and not being an asshole like in Teen Titans Go or an obnoxious jackass like in Omniverse. Granted, that's small consolation, but it's something.

But yeah, overall it's pretty dull so far. Nothing horrible, nothing amazing.

edited 22nd Jul '16 7:02:13 AM by Theokal3

The flow of the art and action reminds me of Be Cool Scooby Doo.

Well, that was gratuitous dig as Omniverse. You're phrasing it as if OV Ben spend more time goofing off then being hero.

Let's hope that similarities run deeper.

Well, the clip wasn't terrible, but it could have been better. I hope we can get a better idea of what the show will be like later. At least Ben's still voiced by Tara Strong.

Yeah, sorry, that was harsh of my part. Technically speaking, Ben DID save people in Omniverse plenty of time, but there's just something in the way he did it that made it feel like it was less meaningful. I mean, to me the ONE thing all incarnations of Ben in previous shows had in common was that they really cared about saving people above everything and would stop goofing around when people really were in peril. Original Series Ben stopped following Kevin the moment hurting/killing people was suggested, and gave up money he had won hard to get for Gwen's computer because he realized the two mutant guys in Ready to Rumble needed it more than he did. UAF Ben would try saving everyone even when it wasn't the most pragmatic option, and go in Unstoppable Rage when villains harmed innocents. You always had the feeling it was important to him.

I just didn't get this feeling with OV Ben. I mean he would still save people, and in some episodes he would take it seriously (him letting Malware go to stop the bus), but most of the time, especially in later episodes, it felt less like he was doing because it was important and more because he just had fun being a superhero/rubbing his ego; There was an insensitive vibe about his superheroing that irritated me. The part that best illustrates it for me is in the finale, where he sees the Contemelia as Mr Smoothie... suggesting he cares more about that stupid drink than his own friends and relatives (though I admit that in Kai's case, that at least makes sense).

I completely realize this opinion of mine is subjective, and frankly I'd be glad if you could prove me that I am wrong, but that's the feeling I got watching this show.

Well, best counter argument is literally any episodes with Ben 23. In first he taught him to fight even when he couldn't get publicity for it, in second he protected No Watch Ben with his own body and in third he was his hero mentor, and he inspired populace to raise against Mad Ben. Now that I think about it works similar way to original series when Ben was smarter and more mature around Kevin. Power of foils, I guess.

Still, It's a quick judgment to make. I might as well say that Gwen is nicer now because all three of her lines so far (one which wasn't even a full sentence.) weren't snarky.

Ben 23 had such a good effect in putting Ben in the mentor role that I'm disappointed that we're probably not going to see him again for a looooong while, if ever again.

It's not a judgement, it's a first impression. I am not saying this Ben will be better for the entire series based on the trailer.

Also I will admit the examples you gave (minus the Mad Ben episode, which I didn't see) are among the few episodes I actually liked, specifically for these reasons. Though Store 23 still has a terrible beginning...

Well, weren't you complaining some time ago that Ben left Anur Transyl without defeating Zs'Skayr? Here, he did literally opposite of that when explained to 23 that they can't just leave this world like that. Also, I don't see how his behavior here - such as freeing slaves and giving them Rousing Speech to fight for themselves, getting them water, standing up to guy Pakmar was bullying, convincing Mad Rook to become a hero- could feel as "insensitive" or "rubbing his ego".

Well, at least there is one good thing to expect about this reboot: it will have action. Why? Because it's a show about kid turning into aliens which means he needs excuses to turn into them. You can't just have Ben e.g. read letter, get angry, turn into Heatblast and burn it and turn back. You need something solid and more then once. Sonic Boom episode without Spin Dash is still Sonic, or Teen Titans Go episode without Cyborg's sonic cannon is still Titans, but without aliens, this show has no premise.

Also, I don't see how his behavior here - such as freeing slaves and giving them Rousing Speech to fight for themselves, getting them water, standing up to guy Pakmar was bullying, convincing Mad Rook to become a hero- could feel as "insensitive" or "rubbing his ego".

..... eeeeeh, I literally told you one post above that I didn't see the Mad Ben episodes^^' maybe you misread me or something?

You can't just have Ben e.g. read letter, get angry, turn into Heatblast and burn it and turn back.

Would you really put that above the writers?

More seriously, you probably are right. Now the question is how seriously the villains will be treated.

edited 23rd Jul '16 9:14:49 AM by Theokal3

Oh, I misread that and thought that you didn't see it, as if didn't see it in that way. You know like "I have a theory that Alfred wants Bruce to finally retire so he could be Batman" "Eh, I don't see it."

And of course I put it above writers. You can't sell toys like this!

Sometimes Ben was written well, other times not so much.

Omniverse really needed an actual unified vision as opposed to wildly different interpretations of Ben from episode to episode.

I thought the unified vision was "stick it to UAF wherever we can get away with."

edited 23rd Jul '16 12:24:59 PM by KnownUnknown

A halfway decent unified vision then. :P

I thought the vision was "needs more Blukic and Driba".

Damn seeing Diamondhead's transformation is weird if you still remember the really detailed body-horror transformations from the original series.

Also Gwen looked kinda odd, as in her head is a bit of a weird shape to be honest.