Complaining: Mascot Mook

Okay, I'm using the "complaining" tag here because its opposite ("gushing") is not available as a tag, and this seemed the closest fit.

Mascot Mook is clearly a common effect. However, most of the page is taken up by GushingAboutMooksYouLike. It strikes me that either we need to come up with an objective inclusion criterion, or we should tag the page as YMMV or as Audience Reaction.

The page also contains numerous examples that aren't mooks, such as the Big Bad from Silent Hill, and the single-handed-party-killer beholder from Dungeons And Dragons. What this page needs is a dose of Captain Obvious: anything that's not a mascot, or not a mook, needs removing.

I'd say the Beholders are close enough to count. Aren't they basically just another enemy, even if they are really powerful?

And not that this invalidates your point, but Pyramid Head is probably more like The Dragon, with the town itself being the Big Bad.

Beholders are clearly not a mook.

Beholders are mooks. They're slightly higher level mooks, but they're mooks all the same.

And even if they aren't low-level enough to be Mooks, Mascot Mook sounds a lot better than Mascot Generic Enemy, and Beholders are close enough to the rest of the examples to count for this trope.

edited 20th Mar '12 11:53:12 AM by abk0100

Really? According to Mook, the term means "the hordes of standard-issue, disposable bad guys whom the hero mows down with impunity." Beholders are not standard issue (they're rare), nor disposable (they're more of the mastermind type) nor can you mow them down with impunity (because they can disintegrate, kill, and dominate three party members all in the same round).

Aside from that, are they mascots? If so, where exactly? I'm sure there are players that like them, but it's not like the D&D game is being marketed as "containing beholders!"

I don't see how they can be considered a Mascot Mook.

Well, I'm not suggesting renaming the trope. What I suggest is cleanup, a YMMV tag, and classification as Audience Reaction.

edited 20th Mar '12 11:54:44 AM by Spark9

This trope needs to be restricted to "enemies that the company adopted as a mascot" rather than just "enemies that the fanbase really likes." The first is at least objective, although it may be more Trivia than Trope. The second is just an Audience Reaction.

I have no problem with the use of Mook, since we also use it to mean "enemy" quite often, and people seem to be able to keep it straight, as far as I can tell (Actually Four Mooks, for example).

edited 20th Mar '12 11:59:35 AM by ccoa

"it's not like the D&D game is being marketed as "containing beholders!"

Actually, did you see the movie? The one enemy they used from the games was a Beholder.

I agree. Objectivity is good.

You mean that Fan Discontinuity movie that everybody hates? No, it was billed◊ with a dragon. Which also isn't a mook, but at least it's a mascot.

What about the series of video games named after them?

edited 20th Mar '12 12:37:15 PM by abk0100

Does it have to be just minor enemies?

Maybe Signature Foe?

We're not doing a rename. Even OP doesn't think we need one.

Signature Foe is probably a supertrope of this.

Does it have to be minor enemies? Well, yes: otherwise they aren't mooks. "Mascot that is not a mook" would be a sister trope. It's all fine and dandy if the Big Bad is a mascot, but the Big Bad is not a mook.

edited 20th Mar '12 12:56:11 PM by Spark9

OK, wasn't this trope about mooks that are a staple for a game or franchise? If not, then I've indeed been a victim of confusion. =/

I think the definition should be as #7 says. An enemy that's 'officially acknowledged as a mascot. A work can have several.

Final Fantasy for instance, has a few. I still think that needs to be cleaned. Marlboros are debatable, but if they've been made into toys, maybe so. Tonberries and Cactuars are. I wouldn't count Chocobos or Moogles as mooks. They're generally friendly. More like plain mascots.

Also, while beholders can be mooks, that's not exactly how they're presented as a mascots, the way I figure it.

edited 20th Mar '12 3:15:10 PM by Feather7603

Chocobos are Assended Mook s really you fight them and are mooks in a lot of FF games but they are also A Horse Of A Different Color, have their own game series (Chocobo Racing and such.) Generally FF attempts to add one every other game. (my imported Tonberry plushy is adorable btw)

We might be missing a Recurring Mook trope.

edited 20th Mar '12 6:38:26 PM by Raso

Being powerful or difficult does not make you less of a mook. Look at the page, mook has more subtropes than you can count on one hand. Superpowered Mooks, Elite Mook, Giant Mook, Kung Fu-Proof Mook

The main characteristic of mooks are being disposable and getting killed without audience sympathyand sympathy is not always absent

edited 20th Mar '12 9:01:28 PM by Cider

I think Raso may have hit the nail on the head. We're missing a trope about Recurring Mooks and people are squeezing examples of that in here. Chocobos are the mascot for the Final Fantasy series. Tonberries are a Signature Recurring Mook.

Drop the "signature" part, as it makes a trope seem YMMV ("Well that mook is signature to me."). Just make it for games where there is a stable of recurring enemies, which would be a broad trope, but it's still a trope.

Well my Tonberry Plushy [1]◊ puts that in a Mascot role I think.

Reoccurring Mook would be like Dragon Quest, nearly the entire random encounter list has been in more than one game they are just there.

EDIT most of them actually get The Merch [2] though.

edited 4th Apr '12 12:49:58 PM by Raso

That trope is actually all over the place. More game franchises seem to do it than not. Not that it's a bad thing, just that if done right, this trope should have loads of wicks and examples.

Well I was using the fact that X has The Merch as a determining point for a "Mascot" or not...

What exactly will make a Mascot Mook vs just Reoccuring Mook

Well that's not the definition of "mascot" though.

A mascot is something that informally, publicly represents something else. Not just something that is merchandized.