Are ultra-conservative movements becoming more intense recently?

Is it just my eyes being opened to an uglier-than-I-once-thought reality, or have ultra-conservative movements around the world gained intensity in the last couple decades, especially the last few years? Christian fundamentalism, Islamic fundamentalism, violent anti-feminism, violent nativism, xenophobia, violent survivalism, and generally various belief systems involving desiring to "restore" or (more accurately put) revert to older societal/ethical/moral systems, ones which almost always involve a philosophical emphasis on favoring oneself or one's tribe to the (sometimes violent) exclusion of others?

edited 10th Mar '12 6:52:02 AM by BestOf

I removed the IJBM2 link from the OP because having it there would likely result in the discussion taking place over both forums, with posts linking or quoting posts from the other one. That would be very, very inconvenient for everyone.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.

Well, I think that a lot of these hate organizations (and that's what they really are, to at least some extent) are a lot more global and in-the-news, but we mustn't discount that there have always been these sorts of radical organizations (on both sides of the political spectrum). Groups like the Nation of Islam, the Weathermen, and if you want to go back further, there's always the Klan and Nazis.

What I do think is that the lousy economy over the last five years plays right into these sorts of groups - when people are losing their jobs, they instinctively turn to someone or something to blame for their ills - be it blacks, Jews, whites, or any other group that can be plausibly linked as us v. them.

But another part of it is that there are about to be major paradigm shifts in the global society - Caucasians are not going to be the dominant race/society in about 10 years, between the rise of China, South America, and India (though Africa is still lagging behind), and this plays right into the latent fears of those who would use violent means.

In short, I feel that there are particular aspects of the economy and of political events that foster hate and bigotry, but that hate groups will always exist. As Long as There Is Evil, I suppose.

I've said it before but I'll say it again. Reactionary movements gain strength when the world is doing crap. After all, its difficult to be an idealist when you can't put food on your table. Its the whole craving stability thing when its all unstable and shit.

Dutch Lesbian

QFT.

On both sides of the Political Spectrum — for example, remember that until Those Wacky Nazis took over, the other Major Party in the Reichstag were the Communists.

Keep Rolling On

I think the rise of the internet might be a factor. Where before these kinds of fringe groups might have been separated by geography or other reasons, they can now coordinate online and get their message out more efficiently, making them seem more visible than they were before. Shit like Stormfront, for example.

SPLC noted this. Hate groups have almost doubled since 2000. Most of them are "Patriot" or militia movements.

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry

We're entering the century of postmodernism. It's not unlike the Dada movement after WWI. People lack a purpose, or beliefs. And it's very easy to grab the attention of the young, or bored, or hopeless, and redirect their energies toward a big plan.

So, the obvious thing to do is brainwash them into being liberals before the conservatives can do it. Mwu ha.

edited 10th Mar '12 12:50:49 PM by johnnyfog

I'm a skeptical squirrel

Correlation with 2 recessions and a terrorist attack?

Dutch Lesbian

There's absolutely a correlation between those two things. And in America, you can pretty much join whatever group you want, so long as you're not doing anything actually illegal. Or at least not caught doing anything illegal. Freedom of association and speech can be a double edged sword, sometimes. (I am not dissing on those things, it's just that it means we pretty much also have to let idiots and bigots say as they please most of the time.)

I wonder how this mirrors such movements in Europe right now.

Well all the X Defence League movements have joined together to form a super-group

Dutch Lesbian

It's an act of desperation. Social mores are moving farther away what conservatives would like them to be and show no signs of stopping, so they try to convince people that America will be destroyed if we don't return to them.

Also, consider that for 45 years or so, conservatism worldwide was more or less channeled into the Cold War. All the fascist assholes were getting money from America to shoot commies, just like all the communist assholes were getting guns from the Soviet Union to shoot capitalist pigs. Meanwhile, America's own ultracons tended to be joining the Blue Team instead of stirring up trouble at home.

Now, all those mujaheddin that we were arming to take back Afghanistan from the Little Satan have turned on us instead (totally didn't see that one coming), and our own peculiar brands of fascist have been coming out of the woodwork without a foreign enemy to channel them.

Also, as Fish hinted: The conservatives are getting more aggressive and organized in America because they're losing. America's population is moving left (with glacial slowness, but still), the independents are looking at the Tea Party and the Republican establishment and going "wtf man?", and the people who are paying for the conservatives' campaigns are going Oh, Crap! and starting to push for more and more spin and division. I'll add to this the fact that there's a greater and greater ability, with the Internet, to tune out the news that's not in line with your biases; with conservatives getting their news from Faux and no one else, the echo chamber is reinforcing their idiocy (and the non-idiot conservatives are being drowned out and forced into deep cover; see: Huntsman).

Move confidently in the direction of your dreams.

Trouble is, especially in an International Forum like this one, is that a Conservative in one country can believe different things to a Conservative in another country — for one, your average American Conservative is an Ultra-Conservative in Europe, for example...

Keep Rolling On

I think these groups are just more visible due to how pervasive the internet is nowadays and how efficiently it spreads info, as someone else mentioned in here.

Whereas 20 years ago, a small intense hate group in City A wouldn't have been heard of in City B for just spouting of bigotry, unless they went out and did something drastic like a murder.

In the United States conservatism is now at absurd levels.

On the rest of the world there is also a trend towards conservatism mainly because of the financial crisis.

Which is paradoxical since financial crisis are supposed to spur leftist sentiment.

I think an exception could be Japan and Latin America which have in the last years drifted to the left somewhat.

edited 11th Mar '12 4:55:59 PM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.

There's no "supposed to" about social movement, Baff. There's only trends. And the Nazis were pretty hard right, when they came up in the wake of a massive recession in the country of Germany, as well as related parties in other European countries.

It's not so much that people move left as people just go towards the more extreme ends when times are hard. The fact that communism and national socialism were on the rise at roughly the same time are an indication of this.

Baff: I don't think it's so much that a lot of the US are turning conservative, so much as it seems so due to small Vocal Minorities in the conservative spectrum getting heard via the internet and other media.

The Nazis were hard Nazi. Totalitarian mindsets incorporate the worst of both sides and there are pretty clear examples of both sides' characteristics taken to hideous extremes in that particular setting. Hell, it's a textbook example.

Also Godwin's Law.

On topic, it's a combination of increased visibility and networking, shitty economy, and backlashing against globalizing culture.

edited 11th Mar '12 6:02:40 PM by Pykrete

Well, it's a legitimate example of showing that people don't necessarily move "left" in a shitty economy; they simply move to more extreme positions. I'd also say that "left" is a modern term in politics and doesn't really mean anything when talking about any period earlier than the twentieth century.

But whatever, the vocal minority is always great at making themselves seem a lot bigger. A dedicated vocal minority is also pretty good a getting people to do what they want; doesn't necessarily mean they're more intense.

Generally, whent he world is unstable, people go eiher hard left or hard right because they want a mindset to tell them for sure what went wrong and how to for sure fix it.

Reasonable, balanced views wont give them that data.

edited 11th Mar '12 7:15:32 PM by Midgetsnowman

Well the Nazis were after all socialist.

They put in place a lot of welfare and ran massive stimulus, and it worked!!!!!

too bad the other part of Hitler´s plan was taking over the world and deporting the jews to their own nation (and when that became impossible exterminating them in his "final solution", not that he did a lot for their living conditions before such atrocious determination anyways).

Actually Nazi Germany alongside The Big deal are a good example of how the Crash pushed nations to intervene more in the economy.

Nowdays, paradoxically, the trend is to intervene less which is puzzling...

edited 11th Mar '12 8:27:20 PM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.

No they really weren't unless you live in Glenn Beck's fairy tales world.

Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 Fanfic

No they truly were. Or, to be more precise, they put in place many policies which are of socialist and collective nature. After all they werent called the Nationalist Socialist party for nothing...

Lets not have this turn into another Hitler Ate Sugar discussion.

Or to quote John Stewart: "You know, I shouldn't have to explain this, but sharing one attribute with Nazis doesn't make you one!"

edited 11th Mar '12 8:34:33 PM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.