About "Humans Are Bastards" and misanthropy in general

Because you have no reason to believe you can change and/or no motivation to do so. You may want to but you may be depressed and depression is a terrible thing.

I just don't see point in living alone in your life and talking about how humanity sucks as if everyone else should believe it too.

Then that's because you've never felt that way. I myself haven't but I've felt that I myself was completely worthless and incapable of changing and getting better. That I was just a horrible failure who was always going to miserable. These thoughts reinforced my inaction which reinforced my beliefs and so on. This is very, very, very hard to get out of.

So I can understand the viewpoint at least from the standpoint of a depressed person on a personal level. If you can't fix it why bother? And since you're not trying you're not seeing any improvement. Then when you do try any failures stick out much more than your successes, which tend to be small. So you tend to go back to thinking "Why bother? It's all stupid and worthless anyway. Fuck people".

There's likely other reasons for misanthropy but I tend to think of cases of depression and such first since those are what I have personal experience with.

edited 12th Apr '12 12:21:54 PM by Aondeug

Actually, I have and I still am able to realize that its not statistically possible

I've dealt with a lot in my time. Beatings, abuse, desperate poverty.

But still, life is a blessing.

It is. This is entirely seperate from whether humans are bastards or not. I think humans are bastards, but still, life is all we got, and it's good. Certainly beats the alternative, at least.

I don't think "Humans are bastards" can be true because it is generalizing entire species. You can say something like "Humans are bibedal creatures"(even if you get your legs cut off/be born without them), but "bastards"?

Well, it's a statistical statement of course. "Most humans are bastards most of the time, and practically all humans behave now and then like bastards". Surely including myself.

How come on? Doesn't sound objective to me.

"Most humans are bastards most of the time, and practically all humans behave now and then like bastards"

You are generalizing based on the few people you've met. That is not exactly fair.

did this really need to be necro'd?

Lots of people have been wanting to level up their Conjuration lately.

I'm more of the opinion that Humans Are Morons

Is Necromancy a part of Conjuration now?

I don't even buy into "people are bastards most of the time", really. For one thing, behaving nicely is part of what helps you keep your job. And most people like having those, so they can eat and stuff. It's just not profitable for the vast majority to be jerks a significant amount of the time.

This is just in general, obviously.

I'd say the current economic circumstances have a lot to do with it. At least, they do for me. Simply put, the rationale is formed as such:

The economy is suffering. People are out of work and losing money. CE Os, bankers, politicians, and the like are obviously pieces of shit and always have been, but the recession ignited public ire toward them. But what differentiates said excrement from anyone else, besides their wealth and power? Not much. It's human nature to look out for Number One. You do it, I do it, and so do the rich and powerful. Only difference is, they're higher on the totem pole, so their shit rains down on more people. But people are people, and nearly all of us are victim to the same urge to dick others over.

Of course, this still relies on the original assumption that humans really suck. It's even kind of circular. The thing is, a set of beliefs does not need to stem from a logically-reasoned background. It can just be based on what is observed (today it's corruption, greed, hatred, etc).

The big reason, I think (and admit to secretly employing myself), is that believing that humans are vile and disgusting is just easier. You don't need to worry about how bad things are or how to fix the world for the good of all, because hey, there's no point. It's a load of responsibility off your shoulders. It's a lot less to worry about. If Humans Are Bastards, then really, everything is okay. And we all want to feel like everything is okay.

While I half-agree with you, it seems harmful to have a "Why bother?" attitude. Just because humans are generally selfish doesn't mean that we should stop encouraging them not to be.

I'm not saying it's a great attitude, just that it's the one that I believe tends to prevail. Then again, I could only be speaking for myself here since I'm predisposed to defeatism anyway. Others may base their misanthropy on completely different paradigms.

Given that tribalism started way the hell back in pre history, I think the idea that we watch out for Number One first and foremost is incredibly wrong. Even solitary people have a tendency to find a group with which they identify, work with, and will defend. We're largely social by nature, so being nice to each other is a thing we do.

"Humans are Bastards" is an easy answer. It's also the lazy one, that tells us we don't have to do anything to try and improve things. "Humans are Flawed" is a far more accurate answer, but it requires us to try and look at something from another's point of view. It requires us to work to understand each other so we can attempt to be less flawed.

edited 4th Sep '12 7:22:29 PM by QQQQQ

@Ira: Yes, hence my point.

Should we call up a mod to cast Turn Undead?

More like a straight up Bane of the Undead.

I think the reason for so much misanthropy is because of the current state of the world. We have wars, global warming, bad economy and many problems among many others. There are actually many people trying to do things for the better, but many more that does not because they can say "oh, it's always like this"

Ad yes it was always like this, but humans are as capable of improving as they are of destroying. And I have wondered this—-if the misanthropes believe in what they do——-why don't they off themselves? They could use their hate to help the world and prove themselves otherwise.

And the whole concepts that aliens are more peaceful is very exaggerated—-especially if they have a similar evolutionary history, just different species.

IMO I wouldn't say that Hobbes was Right or Rousseau was right———they're two extremes, but rather a toss-up between Humans Are Flawed and Locke was Right.

The rampant cynicism and misanthropy can be seen as counter-productive and against many beliefs. Speaking of such————the original interpretation of the 2012 calendar by many. According to this popular interpretation, 2012 is not the end of the world, but rather a shift into a better one, and it's up to us to go do things that will make it so. Many religions believe that if you do good, you, or in some cases future generations that benifited from your selflessness will be rewarded——if not on life than on the afterife.

I also believe that Darker and Edgier works might also have an explanation in this. Don't get me wrong, a lot of works with Dark themes actually have hopeful messages in them—-Code Geass, BSG 2004 the Mass Effect Series for one, that show it's not all hopeless and you can Earn Your Happy Ending, which says more about reality than let's say Cthulhu Mythos or WH 40 K. However, it seems the latter type is becoming extremely popular to the point where "Grimdark" has become a meme. However, life in truth is not that bleak and we will not let's say, end up with Warhammer40000 as a possible, or even probable future.

I have seen the Real life WMG and the WH 40 K WMG where someone claims that we're heading into this future given the state of the world. The nature of these WM Gs if you look at them is not meant to be taken seriously. However, even if it is, there is not even one fact that allows it to. For those who know WH 40 K lore, before the current "Universal Hell", and even before the Emperor, there was a "Golden Age"—-the ironically named "Dark Age of Technology", a time where humanity was at peace and had total idealism and science before all fell apart in the age of strife—————-does anything negative about the state of the world signify that "golden era before the storm" is coming yet? And, there are no mention of Chaos Gods either.

It dosen't help that, if you use a "Grand Timeline" which employs crossovers to your own "canon" then WH 40 K can arguably be preceded by a bleak timeline that takes itself seriously and is chillingly realistic(Warhammer was over the top Crazy Awesome and over the top Nightmare Fuel most of the time)——-Gundam UC timeline, which portrays humans as self-destructive. How? Look up "Ohnyl Colonies" and see what they rhyme with.

Furthermore, cynical characters, while often portrayed as the villain, the Anti-Hero, or the Anti-Villain, are subject to Misaimed Fandom, Draco in Leather Pants and Evil Is Cool, which could have seeped into real life.

In the end, despite what you think about his policies or his "controversial past", I think Ron Paul sums it up best here:

—>So instead of seeing this as a continuation of the era of The 20th Century that gave us so much death and destruction undermining our liberties and the conditions are dangerous". Let us think that we are now moving into a new era, a new era where we are going to concentrate on liberty and freedom and property and peace. I believe that is the cause we should lead and I thank you very much for being part of it!

tl;dr: If people always see the glass as half-full instead of half empty, believe that it's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness and, most importantly, try to accomplish all of this. Their efforts, succeed or fail, win or lose, no matter how the odds are stacked against them, will prove that humans as a race aren't bastards.

edited 4th Sep '12 10:06:24 PM by xie323