How to make characters from tropes.

Don't.

Characters are described by tropes, not the other way round.

There are too many threads (i.e. >0) that go towards "I want to make a trope, with trope, trope and trope. How should I do it?"

I know it's tempting; TV Tropes (when NOT ruining your life) looks like one big ol' toolbox. It isn't. Start with the character. A writer has an advantage over real life (which as we all know, is badly scripted) in that you are in control; when writing a scene you can go back and edit a Chekov's noun into an earlier part of your story. A character can be anything you want (with in reason, and even then, there is no actual law against Mary Sueing, if you so wish).

Ask yourself 'How did He (or she) get her? Why?'

Think of your characters as real people. Use random questions from this thread, you dont have to answer on the thread, just ask your character what they would do. Here's another good one.

If you've acted or RPG'ed you should have a head start. If all else fails, interview them - imagine they are in the room with you and ask them correctly. (Note this doesn't always work; Gabe and Charlie adamantly refuse to tell me whether or not they have had sex).

Identifying tropes in your work is fun, but they are not guidelines or rules ("Oh no, the Hero's best friend isn't enough of a Lancer!"). Think instead about your major characters' mannerisms and speech patterns - what makes that sentence Alice's and not Bob's? (NB, I've seen this cited as a reason for British Brevity, a writer said that in the UK Sit Coms tend to be written by one or two people, as opposed to the 22 writers an US episode may have - his example was in Friends many of the lines could be spoken by anyone.)

Listen to what your characters are telling you - you are a writer, therefore probably more creative than average, and they do have a habit of getting inside your mind. After a few '0,000 words you probably know them better than your own children/wife/family/best friend. They will talk to you. Listen to them.

edited 5th Mar '12 4:10:54 PM by LastHussar

Who are you talking to? Aside from a few people, most people in this forum agree with you.

General advice - There are threads here where people seem too hung up on tropes.

—yawn— mmkay. A lot of the trope threads are just for fun, and if you think someone specifically is relying too much on tropes, tell them directly, so we don't have to play a guessing game.

Am I the only one disappointed that this wasn't an actual how-to guide? That would have been hilarious, seriously.

It would have been a good thing, too, if we actually had a way to work at it from this end. Retraining everyone with "no you suck" is just not as easy or helpful.

No, and I say this as one of the most fervent soapboxers against this attitude.

I do agree that most long-term posters here don't need to be told this.

From what I've seen, it's primarily newbies to the forum who have this problem, and they tend to try and shy away from this approach after getting slapped awake by someone else here.

I think there's a bias against anyone ever using tropes here on Writer's Block (and TV Tropes in general), working under the assumption that anyone admitting to using tropes is obviously a bad/immature writer. I mean, is it just not OK for an author to look at his characters and say, "yeah, definitely, I was going for this trope?"

Or, hell, asking for advice on how to properly convey a trope while still being creative and achieving your goals?

I ask because I was just about to open a thread asking for advice on how I could do a Lightning Bruiser / Fragile Speedster in an action-based series without relying on Flash Stepping techniques. But, now it seems like that doing so would be suicide, because "lol derp no good author uses tropes ever."

Well, that's a mechanical thing, in my opinion, so it would be fine.

Deciding to try and specifically use any given trope isn't a bad thing (except maybe with a few specific tropes), and doesn't mean your entire work is intentionally made out of tropes - but that's a distinction that the kind of posts that draw this reaction rarely seem to make. It's not usually "How do I do Trope X?", it's describing everything about the work with bluelinks.

Make the thread, I'd actually like to see how people work this.

I dunno, I guess I try to assume the best with the general populace of the forum. If I see a thread about a trope or a few tropes, I just assume the thread creator is looking for some input on how to properly use that trope within their story, and not "how can I make this the best example of the trope ever?"

Now that I have a problem with, and I see that here as well. When people are only looking to make their story the most prominent example of a trope or something. Then it's just a one-upsman contest, which we've discussed before is a general problem.

I'll probably go ahead and ask my question though, because this could be the deciding factor for me even including this character at all in my story. So.

The problem isn't necessarily people using tropes, it's solely using them. They exist here not as inspiration but as a catalogue so that one can easily look up information on how other writers did it. The best manner in which to use them I feel is to roughly outline your character's personality first, then figure out what tropes describe them. Then, look the tropes up and see how they were used, what works and what doesn't.

edited 5th Mar '12 9:53:30 PM by setnakhte

I refuse to endorse the view it is impossible to work from tropes towards a story successfully, as that argues that we should be unable to write from prompts or to outlines.

I will endorse that it would be more difficult.

*

edited 6th Mar '12 12:56:32 AM by fanty

I think the OP is excellent advice.

Regarding actually making characters from tropes: tropes can be an inspiration, sure (but then, most things can), but I think using tropes to make a character is ultimately wrong-headed. Tropes are the product of character creation (and plot creation, etc. etc.): you start out making a character, and then you end up with a Lancer or an Anti-Villain.

I think it's more effective to start from how a character doesn't match a trope than from how a character does match it. For instance, I noticed that wise old crones in stories tend not to have a defined past, so one character I'm currently trying to find a home for is a young woman who, if left to her own devices, would grow up to be a wise old crone. Another thing I've noticed is that wise old crones tend not to have any social bonds, so the bonds I give this character will determine how she develops, and what she'll become if she doesn't become a crone.

@ OP Generally, yes. But I agree with Night: it's still possible to get a good character even if you start from tropes.

^^ That.

And also, if you're using tropes to describe your characters, whether ex positivo or ex negativo, do yourself a favor and make sure beforehand that you actually remember what the little stinkers mean. I have found that, even though I really dig the snarky titles, they are worthless to me out of context because at the time of writing I will have no clue what an Emotional Torque or a Black Hole Sue is supposed to be.

I'm the kind of person who benefits from connecting names (such as catchy trope names) to things, which might've been part of the reason why I used to be so partial towards piling tropes onto my characters.

But now if I need a character, I just go on a Wiki Walk and find one, maybe two tropes as starting points and let them grow organically.

Sorry if any one was offended. I tried to make the original post have a humorous edge to avoid that.

In fact if you are writing purely for your own pleasure (and I disagree with Samuel Johnson who said "No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.") then you can ignore my original assertion, as like singing if you do it only for your own pleasure, it doesn't matter how good it is, only that you enjoy it. (I love singing. I can't carry a tune in a bucket.)

What I want people to think about is "Do I need to be constrained by tropes?" Write what the plot demands. The plot, and the characters therein drive the writing, nothing else. In fact that bears repeating.

Write what the plot demands. The plot, and the characters therein drive the writing, nothing else.

I'm not saying don't look at tropes. In fact I have searched TV Tropes for help. What TVT does is supply you with how others have done it, and most of the examples have stood the test of time, thus indicating they work. Han Solo works as a character not because George Lucas said Idealist Hero must have a cynical Lancer, but hundreds of years of story telling shows us that this pairing works - you will write it because it feels a better combo, not because it is a rule set in stone.

Take my current project. Gabriel, Jason and Richard are classic Freudian Trio (Super-ego, Id and Ego respectively), and I mean spot on. I did not plan this - I found the trope later (I was trying to find what 'three man bands' there were out of curiosity, not realising it was called Power Trio). As I wrote I realised that it wasn't Gabriel and Lucy, the leads, who are the centre of the group, it is Rich his wife Lizzie, and of that pair Rich is Lizzie's rock. The group dynamics work because at the end of the day Rich acts as their fixed point.

What the trope allowed me to do is look at other trios, and how they have worked. I don't have to ape, say, Kirk, Spock and Bones, but it is a filter that allows me to understand human relationships. I would also say that I feel that I have an advantage over some here, in that I am forty-mutter-mutter. If you are 19 then your life experience is limited. It may not feel it but it is, trust me. Tropes are access to emotions and situations you haven't had a chance to experience first hand. That is not a criticism - no one can help their age. You may have been affected by the end of a 15 year relationship, but you won't have been the person in that relationship. (This is why you may hear your parents say thing like "if I knew at your age what I knew now...". In my case if I knew at 19 what I know at 43, I'd have died from sexual exhaustion! Unfortunately all the women of my age also know...)

Now I know my males fit the Freudian Trio, I can understand Gabriel's motivations more - what happens to him makes more sense now I know he is a super-ego who has lost his id- this I know now is a theme in the book: the love story is merely the plot, not the theme. I also understand why I am writing him a certain way (I am the real life super-ego in a group of three - in fact for the past year I was in an office with two others, and we fit the Freudian Trio template!) I am being informed by others who fit the trope, not writing to the trope.

edited 8th Mar '12 4:03:53 PM by LastHussar

"Don't make a character from a trope" is a bit of advice like "don't make a character based on someone else's character"—yes, an interesting and original character could be made that way, but the odds are against it, and following conventional advice, making a character from scratch, is much more likely to turn out well (there's a reason it is conventional advice, after all).

The people who can get away with this sort of thing are usually people who have made a lot of good characters by conventional means and therefore have a strong understanding of what, on a practical level, goes into good characters. The trouble is that everyone thinks they're the exception who can do it right*

TL;DR: Rules were made to be broken, but breaking them will still probably turn out badly.

I'd say most of the problems with using tropes are more about writers being inexperienced — these people would be making mistakes with or without tropes to copy. In essence, it's no different from basically copying your favorite characters or styles, or a myriad of other mistakes.

The error comes from forgetting that tropes are not exhaustive and not sufficient. They can be useful tools — like as you say, if you're writing a group of characters, what are some time-tested and well-understood configurations? It can be a good first step for thinking about possible character dynamics if one gets stuck.

The key is first step. Not just slavish copying.

Agreed. The problem isn't with tropes, it's with inexperience/lack of skill. As jewelleddragon mentioned, making a character from a trope isn't all that different from making one by copying a certain character, or a certain archetype, etc. Its harder to pull off, but it can be done.