This is the sticky thread for questions related to the namespacing of works. As in, "which is the right namespace for this work?"
Ideally, questions already answered are covered on the Namespace Map. If you know a namespacing issue has already been resolved, but it is not yet documented on the Map, please update the Map.
If you want to suggest a new namespace, don't post here, but in Suggesting New Namespaces
instead.
For easier reference, I've numbered my questions:
- #1: Where do animated films go? They seem to be distributed rather inconsistenly over Film/ (Puss In Boots, Whats Opera Doc), WesternAnimation/ (Disneys Anne Frank, Snow White), Anime/ (Princess Mononoke) and Disney/ (Snow White And The Seven Dwarfs, Der Fuehrers Face).
- #2: There are a few songs which have their own pages ("Pirate Jenny"). Where do they go – to Music/ or to Literature/ ?
- #3: Where do composers go – to Music/ , or are they to be treated like other creators, which hitherto stay on Main/ ?
- #4: Where do Talk Shows, Game Shows and News Broadcasts go? I guess you could call these formats Live-Action TV but they're not really "TV series", as in Series/.
- #5: Am I right in assuming that Puppet Shows go to Series/ ?
- #6: What about “hybrid shows”, i.e. segment shows that incorporate both live action and animation? (e.g. Die Sendung Mit Der Maus)
- #7: Where to put picture books? I am thinking of books like Der Struwwelpeter and Max and Moritz — books that are really not complete without their illustrations. They are not (yet) ComicBook/s, but to sort them under Literature/ feels a little unsatisfactory too.
- #8: The rule is to put works into the namespace of their original medium. However, once in a while there is a work which is little known in its original medium, and almost exclusively known by its adaptation. I’m thinking of Das Boot, for example: there's a novel, but it is almost exclusively known by the Petersen movie.
- #9: Should One Book Authors who are invariably tied to a single work be treated as a creator or a work page rather?— Currently, we have Samuel Pepys and Herodotus, but shouldn't these pages be at Literature/The Diary of Samuel Pepys and Literature/The Histories rather?
- #10: There are cases where I’m unsure whether to use the English or the original title. Is there are hard rule that determines whether Der Ring Des Nibelungen goes to Theatre/Der Ring des Nibelungen or Theatre/The Ring of the Nibelung? Even Wikipedia uses the original title.
I'd be grateful for input.
Edited by SeptimusHeap on Nov 9th 2023 at 8:15:08 PM
All creators are "just" part of how a work is made. There are no (published) works that are made by a single person. Actors are part of it, directors are part of it, writers are part of it, producers are part of it, studios are part of it, advertisers are part of it, production crews are part of it..."Creator" can encompass all of those things. And as far as our mission is concerned, we should be treating all of those roles pretty much the same way, so it makes sense to lump them together.
Whereas if we went with People/, we'd have a namespace that encompasses a mix of Tropes (e.g. Santa Claus), Useful Notes (e.g. Theodore Roosevelt), Works (e.g. The Undertaker), and Creators (e.g. George RR Martin). That's awkwardly ambiguous. Much better to stick with Creator/ so the role of the page is clear.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
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edited 23rd Jul '17 2:24:16 PM by Jicragg
It's fundamentally tech. Yes, you can move it to /UsefulNotes/, but note that companies are still candidates for /Creator/
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
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edited 23rd Jul '17 2:24:07 PM by Jicragg
Hi, would like to second this query. I know of at least one works page that's currently stuck in Main (Strikers Sound Stage X) since, when we were migrating the rest of the franchise, we found that there was a lack of a namespace for Audio Dramas / Audio Plays that aren't in radio form.
edited 16th Mar '12 8:17:13 PM by Servbot
One more: What would a band/singer fall under: Creator/ or Music/?
It has been extensively used in the latter, with YMMVs covering their musical outputs rather than the individuals themselves. I did see one band get redirected to the Creator/ namespace, so I'm just wondering...
edited 21st Mar '12 2:07:43 PM by EarlOfSandvich
I now go by Graf von Tirol.Music/ is the correct namespace for a band's work page. They can have a Creator/ page as well; it should be separate.
edited 21st Mar '12 2:05:33 PM by troacctid
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Hi
Tool was moved to the Creator namespace; was that the one you were thinking of?
Yeah, that's the one. That's why I asked.
Still, as far as YMMVs go, I think they should be fine as long as it concerns musical output rather than the individual/band itself.
edited 21st Mar '12 2:38:03 PM by EarlOfSandvich
I now go by Graf von Tirol.
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edited 23rd Jul '17 2:23:56 PM by Jicragg
Music/ is the correct namespace for a work page for a band. Creator/ is the correct namespace for a creator page for an artist. So, for example, Music.Miley Cyrus should cover the tropes used in Miley Cyrus's music, and anything about her career as an actress should go on Creator.Miley Cyrus.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Hi
Interesting...so, should the same intro be on both pages for a band?
Oh, and: Music.The Beatles should still remain in the Music/ namespace while individual members go to Creator/, yes?
I now go by Graf von Tirol.![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
That's right, although they can have individual Music/ pages for their solo careers.
Copy-pasting seems sketchy. Probably not the way to go.
edited 21st Mar '12 6:36:06 PM by troacctid
Rhymes with "Protracted."
So what to do then... leave the descriptions to the work page while still allowing the tropes (as applied to the band's members) on the creator page?
I now go by Graf von Tirol.As far as I know, there are no musicians that are currently split this way.
But it's really not any different from any other creator. Creator.Bruce Springsteen is to Music.Bruce Springsteen as George RR Martin is to A Song Of Ice And Fire. The only difference is that the creator and the work happen to have the same name.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
I really don't think we should have Creator.Justin Bieber, though - considering how much of a Hatedom he has. This is gonna be a tough one to figure out. I remember, awhile back, there was a policy set in place to not include stuff about the musicians on the Musician - which, I believe, was extended to include the YMMV/ namespace. So, the question is, where do we draw the line?
edited 21st Mar '12 7:49:08 PM by movie007
Just treat it the same as you'd treat any other creator page. Avoid YMMV stuff, and whatnot.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
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edited 23rd Jul '17 2:23:46 PM by Jicragg
No, I don't think we need to split a wrestler between his persona and his actor. If he's a creator for something else, you can make a separate page for that, but it won't have anything to do with wrestling other than "Is also a wrestler"
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
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edited 23rd Jul '17 2:23:38 PM by Jicragg
Lost in Space
You could do Creator.Dwayne Johnson and Wrestler.The Rock, as those are separate personas.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
According to this, we currently have 5,549 creator pages - so I guess we have that much to be moved to the Creator/ namespace. If we're gonna be creating Creator/ namespace pages for Real Life tropes of recording artists, then should their Music/ namespace counterparts be moved from the "creator" page type to "works" page type?
edited 22nd Mar '12 8:03:34 AM by movie007
Lost in Space
Watch it. People don't have Real Life tropes. I think you're getting some things confused. A Creator page has the same elements as a Work page because the purpose of such pages is to document the person's work. We don't care about their real lives; they are not relevant to the wiki.
For the purposes of a musician who is solely affiliated with their work, then having a separate Creator page is redundant. The only time you'd want a separate article is if the person has a significant body of work not related to their musical career.
For example, if we have Music.Rush, then that is about the band and their work. It discusses the band's members. Having a Creator.Geddy Lee article is pointless if the only thing we have to say about him is that he's a member of Music.Rush. Well, maybe it could serve as a redirect.
As a counterexample, Creator.Paul Mc Cartney makes sense to have as a separate article because his work has not just been about Music.The Beatles.
edited 22nd Mar '12 8:08:21 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
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edited 23rd Jul '17 2:24:23 PM by Jicragg