problem with examples: Big Beautiful Woman

The example section here has a lot of ZeroContextExamples and some really questionable cases that feel like tropers are using this to gush about large women they like. Maybe some guidelines of what makes a character a Big Beautiful Woman might help. We have guidelines for the inverse trope Amazonian Beauty.

The problem is that right now, many editors are treating the trope like Buxom Is Better used to be — they just add any example of a full-figured hottie to the page with no context. I've notice that you also watch the page, and I think both of us have done good work but some more cleanup is definitely needed on the page.

I helped come up with some of those guidelines.

Maybe I can help here, too.

Your help would be welcome.

This one's going to be a bit tougher, because what one person thinks of as "big" someone else might think of as "average". For example, Hollywood Pudgy.

Another problem is that there's not really any visible markers which demonstrate someone as being a large woman. Muscular women are either sculpted or massive, and you can visibly see it. But, since women are naturally supposed to be curvy and body fat actually helps their figures in some ways, it's really tough to call.

True, some women that I consider to have perfect figures elicit the "she's fat" response from my less-educated friends who like to ignore the science of attraction. That right there is kind of what this trope is about, but I think it's also about women like Latifah who by most standards is a little overweight, but she's still attractive anyway.

This one might have to be restricted to in-universe only, unfortuantely.

That still could end up being subjective, unless we restrict it to examples of a guy saying, "Damn girl, you all thick and shit and I wanna be in that," instead of just saying "she could get it" about a bigger girl without saying exactly why. That might be too restrictive.

Not sure why I'm using that slang, but it seems right for the topic.

edited 6th Feb '12 9:09:30 PM by Martello

I see nothing wrong with examples of guys saying, "Damn girl, you all thick and shit and I wanna be in that." That's exactly what I'd be looking for, as a troper, if I visited the page.

(As someone interested in big, beautiful women, I would turn elsewhere on the internet.)

I was saying that examples like that definitely fit the in-universe criteria, but do men being attracted to larger women also fit the criteria without them specifically saying it's because they're bigger?

I think being BBW and having men attracted to that woman in-universe, period, is enough. For example, in any visual media, an obvious appreciative glance should be good to go. I think sometimes we try to narrow these descriptions and definitions too much, and that results in examples that should be listed instead being cut.

It probably needs to be restricted to examples where the woman is found sexually attractive in universe.

How do we separate a Big Beautiful Woman from a woman that just the target of a Chubby Chaser?

edited 6th Feb '12 9:55:11 PM by captainpat

I suppose if it's just Played for Laughs. Otherwise, I don't see why they can't be both.

That's easy. A BBW is either proud of her size or attracts attention regardless (or because) of it. A Chubby Chaser is interested in the body size primarily and the actual woman secondarily.

edited 7th Feb '12 7:25:38 AM by KingZeal

If we only allow examples where they're explicitly refferred to in-story as hot because of their size, that's gonna be way too specific.

I's also like to point out that none of the other "type of hot woman" character type tropes have a rule like that, so why should this one?

Because most of the rest of them have a clear definable trait.

Amazonian Beauty: Muscle definition and/or mass.
Statuesque Stunner: More than five-foot-eight-inches tall or taller than men in her setting.
Hot Chick with a Sword: She has a sword.
Hot Mom: She gave birth to a child or adopted one.

For this trope, we need a clear definition of "big". The problem is, body weight, size, and fat index are all valid ways of defining it.

For example, I typed in "plus size model" and "BBW" and got this pic◊. Apparently, that woman is considered BBW. I would just consider her "normal".

edited 8th Feb '12 9:24:38 PM by KingZeal

Well in that case, we just need a clearer definition. Perhaps one of those hidden percentage mark thingies. It could explain the difference between BBW and other "large" types like Statuesque Stunner, and how this one is just supposed to be about being plump (which is the usual definition of BBW) as opposed to muscular or large-framed.

That should be part of the description. It shouldn't take a whole lot of text to do that.

Also, @King Zeal - she doesn't look "normal" to me. She looks hot.

And now I'm going to bed.

Plumpness seems extremely subjective.

Example should be about people beautiful because they are big. Or even explicitly beautiful despite being big. But Beautiful And X is not a trope.

(Hot And Has A Sword is not a trope; the page was about women on revenge quests but had an inscrutable name which prompted vast misuse. Hot And Mom is not a trope( though Stacy's Mom is); the page began as Hot Shounen Mom about a specific anime character type but was renamed and invited misuse.)

Well, this trope is going to be notable regardless, because (like Amazonian Beauty and Statuesque Stunner), it's a subversion of modern cultural stereotypes. Just like those two subvert No Guy Wants an Amazon, this one subverts the "ideal" feminine figure (don't even know if we have a trope for that).

Sastuesque Stunner bills itself as an Amazonian Beuty subtrope, so we can consider them together. But still, a subversion of normal standards would be... well, did you know we have a Hot Amazon page that's distinct from Amazonian Beauty? A Hot Amazon, which its page calls the "flip side" of No Guy Wants an Amazon, is attractive because she is an action girl. According to that page, A Hot Amazon with a Heroic Build is an Amazonian Beauty. That page seems to think therefore than an Amazonian Beauty is a woman with a Heroic Build who is attractive because she is an Action Girl.

This contrasts with what Amazonian Beauty says is its definition - someone who is buff and attractive. I don't think that's a trope. It's a trend or a concept if the two are linked, not if they're two separate characteristics that here overlap.

The description of Amazonian Beauty is just misusing Hot Amazon and Heroic Build. Also, Statuesque Stunner is definitely not a subtrope of Amazonian Beauty there two different tropes that frequently overlap.

Where does it use Hot Amazon wrong? Routerie simply summarized the description wrong. It says that it commonly "crosses over" (overlaps) with Hot Amazon, not that Hot Amazon is a super or sub trope.

Also, the two are linked. The entire point to the trope is that it's the opposite coin of Brawn Hilda. It's defying the idea that being muscular immediately makes a woman unattractive.

edited 9th Feb '12 7:43:35 AM by KingZeal

I think I summarized their descriptions correctly. Amazonian Beauty say the two merely overlap. But Hot Amazon defines Amazonian Beauty as a Hot Amazon with a Heroic Build.