Badass tropes - now on: Action Girl

Might I also suggest that A. the 'defence' does not need to be physical and B. the trope is not limited to people being bullied for being gay (for example), but to include those who may be choosing to be more badass in order to be the Token Minority Badass (does that make sense? Maybe like a Crowning Moment Of Badass for LGBT characters as long as it is related to their sexuality, and obviously trying to be the least subjective as possible.)

EDIT: Also, re. Action Girl vs. Tough Chick: perhaps the difference can be described with women's rugby — you wouldn't call them an Action Girl, but definitely Tough Chick.

edited 7th Aug '16 2:47:28 PM by lakingsif

So then Defending Your Social Identity (terrible name...)

but just person called out for, or disrespected due to stereotypes about their race/gender/sexuality/etc and then they prove the haters wrong.

And have it apply to all potential groups, not just lgbt. And yes I agree, violence does not need to be how you defend.

edited 8th Aug '16 12:35:15 PM by acrobox

That seems like the best way to do it. So it would be like this Person A: "You can't possibly be badass because (insert Social Identity X)!" Person B: (does badass thing to prove them otherwise).

Is that right?

yeah, thats the simplest example

Defend Your Minority Status? Actually no, that sounds like you're going to kick someone off the squad to remain the only minority.

Maybe make Defend Your Sexuality, and then a super trope with a better name. I Am Not My Identity, or a version that's not dialogue, perhaps?

Maybe Rise Above if "Defend Your Social Identity" and "Defend Your Sexuality" aren't worthy?

So let me get this straight...

• Badass Gay is being completely cut. Which means all wicks and examples must be cut. Same goes for Badass Bisexual and Badass Lesbian ^note  Which means people must infer a badass gay from the trope list, such as seeing something like both Bi The Way and One-Man Army
• The definition of the new trope (whatever we call it) is a person calls out another for their social identity (LGBT, minority, etc.) and the victim therefore proves him/her wrong. And the act doesn't have to be violence or combat-related — it can be a very convincing argument, showing the accuser people just like him/her who otherwise don't care whatsoever, etc.
• The above point also entails "badass" situations.

Right?

edited 8th Aug '16 4:04:40 PM by erazor0707

Probably more like Badass Gay is being reworked, and the new trope(s) may... grow, but I think that's pretty much the consensus.

As I understand it Badass Gay is being reworked into Rise Above Social Identity so...

Yes

That's not a rework, that's a completely new trope because a not a thing is related to what is currently on the page.

And we still need to deal with where to sort the actual examples on the page since they belong in 1 of 4 tropes and only half of those tropes exist right now.

Rise Above Social Identity sounds like the social identity is something to cast off. Defend Your Social Identity would avoid that.

well, get to dewicking and moving Badass Gay examples to other tropes.

Thats the next step, at least for the tropes that are already there.

837 wicks

Now, the original Badass Gay thread (courtesy link in this thread's intro box) does list many reasons that were the original motivation for Badass Gay, and which are all trope worthy. Of course, the name "Badass Gay" is a big part of the problem for misuse, but these tropes should be integrated into whatever we ultimately decide is the best name for the retool.

I also think that, because of different motivations, being of a racial minority and being of a sexual minority may be distinct enough to have separate tropes.

edited 9th Aug '16 2:22:40 PM by lakingsif

Maybe we're missing a supertrope here about acting against a stereotype?

It would indeed seem to be missing. Maybe we could call it Playing Against Stereotype, because of Playing Against Type (my other suggestion being I Am Not My Stereotype, which isn't as great).

Playing Against Stereotype sounds good.

I'm going to be the one putting all of these through yk, aren't I? Just a warning: I'm going to be internet-less in a couple of weeks for a couple of weeks, so someone will kindly have to look after them.

So, what do we have? Defend Your Sexuality, Tough Chick, Playing Against Stereotype, a bit of an update to Agent Peacock, the race one (Racial Stereotype Subversion for a suggestion), and what else

edited 9th Aug '16 3:03:51 PM by lakingsif

Probably a supertrope. Maybe something like This Is Who I Am, Rise Above, Defend Your (-insert witty noun-).

EDIT: Canned by my second suggestion. Forgot I Am What I Am is already a trope.

edited 9th Aug '16 4:08:19 PM by erazor0707

This Is Who I Am Rise Above sounds like a good name. I like the sound of it, but yes it already exists by another name.

edited 10th Aug '16 11:39:43 AM by ChaoticNovelist

Looking over that original TRS thread again, I think that maybe Badass Gay doesn't need a full cut, but a rename (definitely) and obviously some rewriting but it also covers a trope we don't seem to have yet considered in here: the subversion of gay male characters being pushovers — and not a deliberate invocation In-Universe. (and I don't think any of our other ideas currently would cover it in particular, either)

I would rather have a Wussy Gay Guy trope instead. specifically because that stereotype is far more of a specific one and does not apply to lesbians and such.

Aversions to that is the trope you are proposing and its an extremely wide net from Straight Gay on up the badass spectrum including the flamboyant types in Agent Peacock.

edited 14th Aug '16 7:09:33 AM by Memers

Precisely

We don't need "Gay person is not a pushover." That idea is covered by so many other existing and potential more specific tropes.

...of course, even Straight Gay guys can be pushovers.

But it is a very specific thing, you're right. Though perhaps if we are making a trope for characters actively defying stereotypes, a version where the characters do not draw attention to the fact (being better representation, which I think is what makes it distinct — I don't think I'm expressing this well) could be made or incorporated.

EDIT: Actually, we're probably best to just work on what we are working on at the moment, no more sidetracks. And if I'm finding it hard to express, writing it up could prove ridiculous and not be very good at all. (and of course I agree that of course we don't need 'gay guy not a pushover')

edited 14th Aug '16 2:23:04 PM by lakingsif

So is this thread becoming a way to suggest new ways the Badass trope can be branched off now? Since its been voted that the trope Badass has no clear-cut meaning and needs to be more specific? Like with Badass Bookworm or Badass Adorable?

(On the subject of Badass, I feel the trope Badass Longcoat really needs to be renamed to Cool Longcoat so it doesn't come across as a character trope, but thats neither here nor there.)

Well, it sort of is a character trope as currently written (in the sense of creating the image the creators of the character are trying to portray). It's supposed to be about how the presence and use of that long-coat emphasises something important about the character (how the character's image says something about who/what the character is). So, yes, it about the long-coat and not the character, but it's about describing how the coat is used to create the character's image. If I'm making sense. I know it's often not used that way, admittedly.

I don't disagree that the use of the 'badass' in the trope name is a problem though. It's more like a Longcoat Statement than anything.

edited 28th Aug '16 2:49:53 PM by Wyldchyld

Seconded. A longcoat can be used as a visual cue that a character is badass (whatever that means), but the focus needs to be the longcoat itself.