Alright, so in TRS Badass Gay came up for discussion and it was agreed that there appears to big problem with the Badass X tropes in general, which needs to be sorted out until something can be ruled on for Badass Gay.
Here's a courtesy link: TRS page
. And Badass page with its subtropes. You can also visit the sandbox page here.
Noted Problems include:
- Tropes are just listings of characters people thing are badass who happen to have a certain trait. (The Badass + Trait Problem)
- Badass X as a naming scheme is actually very vague and doesn't give a lot of insight into what the character trope actually is, assuming it is a trope.
- Badass X as a naming scheme proliferates the use of Badass + Trait 'tropes'.
Suggested things to do include:
- Make it a requirement that a badass character trope means a character is "badass because of a trait", or "badass in spite of a trait".
- Renaming away from the Badass X naming scheme as much as possible.
- Cut, redefine or re-purpose things that are just Badass + trait.
There are also a lot of tropes that seem to be valid character-types, but have the naming scheme 'Badass X', when there's more to the trope than that. There are also a lot of prop or event or whatever tropes that need to be gone through as well.
Edited by Berrenta on May 15th 2020 at 7:39:14 AM
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
Good point. Where does the concept behind Badass Pacifist go, then? It seems quite tropable, but if it's not "badass", then what is it?
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
I see the Awesomeness.
Hm, it does feel like a concept. But it feels more related to things like Shaming the Mob or dialoguey type of things. Perhaps a rename to something like Victorious Pacifist?
Fight smart, not fair.
Cure Candy
Or the Pacifist Proved His Point.
edited 16th Apr '12 8:28:23 PM by Raso
Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
Not a badass trope. Time to stop him before it launches, I suppose.
edited 18th Apr '12 8:24:37 AM by Arha
Badass Blink has been renamed and rewritten.
Another "badass" in the name YKTTW. Not sure if this one's justified or not, though.
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
You know, I just realized that redefining Badass to be simply "good at fighting" makes way too broad to be practical. What do you think?
edited 29th Apr '12 4:53:27 PM by MarqFJA
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
If every subtrope must also be an example of the supertrope then there's not much more you can add to it. Is a Badass Adorable character Rule of Cool personified?
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
Define/explain what "Rule of Cool personified" means; I never truly understood what that meant.
And by "too broad", I meant that "good at fighting" sounds like People Sit On Chairs; it covers practically every hero that engages in fighting and consistently does not suck (outside of extenuating circumstances, that is), which is arguably applies to almost every hero in existence that engages in fighting, period.
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
I see the Awesomeness.
I don't think we're defining it purely that way, we're just making it a requirement to keep it from further decaying into "character I think is neat".
Fight smart, not fair.
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
Okay, what is the full form of the new definition, then?
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
That's not what PSOC means, Marq.
Rule of Cool personified is someone like Rakan. They get away with everything because it's cool. The Badass article says that's what the trope is, but it's certainly not used like that.
We don't have a full form of the definition yet, but it's going to end up largely based on what I said. Competence in a fight is what Badass Normal, Badass Adorable and Badass Santa all have in common.
edited 30th Apr '12 6:49:16 AM by Arha
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
edited 30th Apr '12 7:49:23 AM by MarqFJA
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Awe inspiring is subjective.
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
... I thought the "cool" in Rule of Cool was not subjective. That's where I derived "awe-inspiring" from.
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Rule of Cool is the idea that implausible events get a pass because the audience puts their disbelief aside in order to marvel at the explosions. A badass character doesn't have to do implausibly awesome things and if you instead describe them as awe inspiring you're making a value judgment.
I was always under the impression that Rule of Cool was subjective.
I see the Awesomeness.
The trope is because it's either an authorial intent, or a subjective reaction depending on how you look at it.
Fight smart, not fair.
Not An Avatar
There isn't anything seriously wrong with the definition on the Badass page. A badass is someone who performs acts that stretch the suspension of disbelief, but are really cool. The Rule of Cool is about things that stretch suspension of disbelief, but are allowable because they're cool. Hence the conclusion that badass = Rule of Cool personified. Making it about being a good fighter is not right. It just happens that a lot of over-the-top badassery in fiction involves fighting and action.
We're not just men of science, we're men of TROPE!
I see the Awesomeness.
You realize that that definition is subjective correct?
Fight smart, not fair.
Not An Avatar
It's not wholly subjective, as in an Audience Reaction based entirely on the issue of whether the character is 'awesome' or not. It's just something that it's possible to disagree on. Which is as much as we can expect; not everyone will agree that someone is a badass.
We're not just men of science, we're men of TROPE!
I believe that if anything you're thinking of a subtrope. Badass is going to have to be a high level and very broad supertrope. To be honest, I wouldn't use the word badass the way we're probably going to have to either, but this is what happens when everyone snowclones. We water down a term and make it so general that the original concept becomes lost.
I see the Awesomeness.
I was referring to the stretching of belief.
I suppose we could make it more about the flare with which we do it. That seems to be a very common trait as well, the nonchalance with which they kick ass. Not to say that there aren't variants that don't, but I suspect contrast trope.
Fight smart, not fair.
Only if you're willing to declare every single instance of The Hero Wins an act of badassery.
Fight smart, not fair.