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Badass tropes - currently on : Big Badass Bird Of Prey get usage counts

Alright, so in TRS Badass Gay came up for discussion and it was agreed that there appears to big problem with the Badass X tropes in general, which needs to be sorted out until something can be ruled on for Badass Gay.

Here's a courtesy link: TRS page. And Badass page with its subtropes.

Noted Problems include:

  • Tropes are just listings of characters people thing are badass who happen to have a certain trait. (The Badass + Trait Problem)
  • Badass X as a naming scheme is actually very vague and doesn't give a lot of insight into what the character trope actually is, assuming it is a trope.
  • Badass X as a naming scheme proliferates the use of Badass + Trait 'tropes'.

Suggested things to do include:
  • Make it a requirement that a badass character trope means a character is "badass because of a trait", or "badass in spite of a trait".
  • Renaming away from the Badass X naming scheme as much as possible.
  • Cut, redefine or re-purpose things that are just Badass + trait.

There are also a lot of tropes that seem to be valid character-types, but have the naming scheme 'Badass X', when there's more to the trope than that. There are also a lot of prop or event or whatever tropes that need to be gone through as well.

edited 3rd Feb '13 1:06:28 AM by lu127

 326 Deboss, Mon, 16th Apr '12 12:22:49 PM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
Only if you're willing to declare every single instance of The Hero Wins an act of badassery.
 327 Marq FJA, Mon, 16th Apr '12 12:31:39 PM from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
O' Allah, save Egypt
Good point. Where does the concept behind Badass Pacifist go, then? It seems quite tropable, but if it's not "badass", then what is it?
Ash-shaʻb yurīd isqāṭ ḥukm al-ʻaskar
 328 Deboss, Mon, 16th Apr '12 3:44:07 PM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
Hm, it does feel like a concept. But it feels more related to things like Shaming the Mob or dialoguey type of things. Perhaps a rename to something like Victorious Pacifist?
Cure Candy
Or the Pacifist Proved His Point.

edited 16th Apr '12 8:28:23 PM by Raso

 330 lu 127, Wed, 18th Apr '12 7:38:53 AM from the Capital of Light Relationship Status: Loves me...loves me not
Badass bad boy spotted.
迷子の足音消えた
代わりに祈りの唄
Not a badass trope. Time to stop him before it launches, I suppose.

edited 18th Apr '12 8:24:37 AM by Arha

Badass Blink has been renamed and rewritten.

Seeking for Light
Another "badass" in the name YKTTW. Not sure if this one's justified or not, though.

 334 Marq FJA, Sun, 29th Apr '12 4:53:17 PM from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
O' Allah, save Egypt
You know, I just realized that redefining Badass to be simply "good at fighting" makes way too broad to be practical. What do you think?

edited 29th Apr '12 4:53:27 PM by MarqFJA

Ash-shaʻb yurīd isqāṭ ḥukm al-ʻaskar
If every subtrope must also be an example of the supertrope then there's not much more you can add to it. Is a Badass Adorable character Rule of Cool personified?

 336 Marq FJA, Sun, 29th Apr '12 8:06:58 PM from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
O' Allah, save Egypt
Define/explain what "Rule of Cool personified" means; I never truly understood what that meant.

And by "too broad", I meant that "good at fighting" sounds like People Sit on Chairs; it covers practically every hero that engages in fighting and consistently does not suck (outside of extenuating circumstances, that is), which is arguably applies to almost every hero in existence that engages in fighting, period.
Ash-shaʻb yurīd isqāṭ ḥukm al-ʻaskar
 337 Deboss, Sun, 29th Apr '12 9:01:50 PM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
I don't think we're defining it purely that way, we're just making it a requirement to keep it from further decaying into "character I think is neat".
 338 Marq FJA, Mon, 30th Apr '12 5:10:07 AM from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
O' Allah, save Egypt
Okay, what is the full form of the new definition, then?
Ash-shaʻb yurīd isqāṭ ḥukm al-ʻaskar
That's not what PSOC means, Marq.

Rule of Cool personified is someone like Rakan. They get away with everything because it's cool. The Badass article says that's what the trope is, but it's certainly not used like that.

We don't have a full form of the definition yet, but it's going to end up largely based on what I said. Competence in a fight is what Badass Normal, Badass Adorable and Badass Santa all have in common.

edited 30th Apr '12 6:49:16 AM by Arha

 340 Marq FJA, Mon, 30th Apr '12 7:48:50 AM from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
O' Allah, save Egypt
That's not what PSOC means, Marq.
Now I'm glad that I didn't say "it's People Sit on Chairs", but rather "it sounds like People Sit on Chairs". There's a subtle difference between the two.

Rule Of Cool personified is someone like Rakan. They get away with everything because it's cool. The Badass article says that's what the trope is, but it's certainly not used like that.
Well, that certainly sounds like it should've been named Awesomeness Personified.

We don't have a full form of the definition yet, but it's going to end up largely based on what I said. Competence in a fight is what Badass Normal, Badass Adorable and Badass Santa all have in common.
Hmmm... How about "a character who demonstrates awe-inspiring competence in a fight or some similar kind of confrontation"?

edited 30th Apr '12 7:49:23 AM by MarqFJA

Ash-shaʻb yurīd isqāṭ ḥukm al-ʻaskar
Awe inspiring is subjective.

 342 Marq FJA, Mon, 30th Apr '12 9:46:50 AM from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
O' Allah, save Egypt
... I thought the "cool" in Rule of Cool was not subjective. That's where I derived "awe-inspiring" from.
Ash-shaʻb yurīd isqāṭ ḥukm al-ʻaskar
Rule of Cool is the idea that implausible events get a pass because the audience puts their disbelief aside in order to marvel at the explosions. A badass character doesn't have to do implausibly awesome things and if you instead describe them as awe inspiring you're making a value judgment.

 344 nrjxll, Mon, 30th Apr '12 2:13:09 PM Relationship Status: Not war
I was always under the impression that Rule of Cool was subjective.

 345 Deboss, Tue, 1st May '12 12:00:08 AM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
The trope is because it's either an authorial intent, or a subjective reaction depending on how you look at it.
Not An Avatar
There isn't anything seriously wrong with the definition on the Badass page. A badass is someone who performs acts that stretch the suspension of disbelief, but are really cool. The Rule of Cool is about things that stretch suspension of disbelief, but are allowable because they're cool. Hence the conclusion that badass = Rule of Cool personified. Making it about being a good fighter is not right. It just happens that a lot of over-the-top badassery in fiction involves fighting and action.
We're not just men of science, we're men of TROPE!
 347 Deboss, Wed, 2nd May '12 6:01:30 PM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
You realize that that definition is subjective correct?
Not An Avatar
It's not wholly subjective, as in an Audience Reaction based entirely on the issue of whether the character is 'awesome' or not. It's just something that it's possible to disagree on. Which is as much as we can expect; not everyone will agree that someone is a badass.
We're not just men of science, we're men of TROPE!
I believe that if anything you're thinking of a subtrope. Badass is going to have to be a high level and very broad supertrope. To be honest, I wouldn't use the word badass the way we're probably going to have to either, but this is what happens when everyone snowclones. We water down a term and make it so general that the original concept becomes lost.

 350 Deboss, Thu, 3rd May '12 2:36:34 PM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
I was referring to the stretching of belief.

I suppose we could make it more about the flare with which we do it. That seems to be a very common trait as well, the nonchalance with which they kick ass. Not to say that there aren't variants that don't, but I suspect contrast trope.

Page Action: Big Badass Bird Of Prey
5th Jun '14 10:58:37 AM
What would be the best way to fix the page?
At issue:
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