Ambiguous Title, Unwieldy Examples: Luca Brasi Sleeps With The Fishes

Named after a line of dialogue from The Godfather. The trope name is supposed to refer to the cryptic, seemingly ambiguous message (a fish inside a bullet-proof vest) sent to the Corleone family as a "code" to imply the eponymous Luca Brasi's untimely fate.

However, many examples and wicks for the page are mostly referencing use of the Stock Phrase "sleeps/sleeping with the fishes" or completely overlap with examples from Mary Kelly's Kidney, which has already been decided in another Repair Thread to be merged with the YKTTW Finger in the Mail (EDIT: Finger in the Mail has since been launched). There are even a few examples that are only allusions to the character's fate with Cement Shoes, which even the trope description explicitly says should not be done.

And many more examples left after that lack enough context for anyone unfamiliar with the work to understand the example. ("The sausages in Prime Cut," "The scene with the heart in The Blair Witch Project. *Shiver*," etc.) This definitely needs work.

edited 7th Jan '12 1:25:48 PM by SeanMurrayI

Comprehensive wick check; the page only has 32 wicks. I do want to note that I'm only going through ones that are supposed to be trope examples.

Correct Wicks

• Breaking Bad

Overlap with Finger in the Mail / Mary Kelly's Kidney

• The Golden Girls (Two examples are listed on the page; the first one is about a teddy bear being held hostage and parts of the bear being mailed back after a ransom is not paid)
• Girl Scouts Are Evil (Refers to the example from The Golden Girls outlined above)
• Under Siege ("Strannix recounts a tale of how he sent his CIA superior the fingers of two assassins who were sent to kill him")
• The Big Lebowski (It's even listed on the same line as Mary Kelly's Kidney, as if the two terms are supposed to refer to the same exact thing)
• Escape From New York (Same example is already referenced on Mary Kelly's Kidney and has been copied over to the new YKTTW)

Overlap with Cement Shoes (or Otherwise Referring to the Death of a Character or How a Body is Disposed of)

• Psycho for Hire (Potholed under the words "his death", referring to how the Godfather character met his untimely fate—not the message sent to convey his death to his allies)
• Everybody Loves Raymond (Referring to the implied fate of another character)
• Everybody Knows That (Referring to the fate of the Trope Namer)
• Burial at Sea (Referring to the fate of the Trope Namer)
• But You Screw One Goat (Referring to the fate of the Trope Namer, in addition to adopting the phrase "sleeps with the fishes" as an allusion to sex with fish)

Stock Phrase

• The Golden Girls (The second example of this trope on this page isn't much more than a shout out to the original and a reference to the phrase "sleeping with the fishes")
• Never Say "Die"
• Deadly Euphemism
• A Muppets Christmas Letters To Santa (Judging by the context of the example, it sounds like mobsters verbally threatening the Muppets that they'll "sleep with the fishes")

Wicks Incorrect for Any Other Reason Not Listed Elsewhere

• Licence To Kill (Refers to a written note—not an "ambiguous, cryptic code")
• MemeticBadass/RealLife (Refers to Rahm Emmanuel sending a "political enemy" a dead fish in the mail. Maybe a personal Shout-Out to The Godfather, but it doesn't quite add up to the trope's intended definition)

X Just X

• The Untouchables (Only gives the title of an episode from the TV series)
• Schlock Mercenary (Non-descriptive explanation and a non-descriptive dialogue quote presumably embedded to the relevant strip that I refuse to navigate towards on general principles)
• Kate Modern (Only gives the title of an episode)
• Samurai Deeper Kyo (No explanation at all)

edited 1st Jan '12 10:22:21 AM by SeanMurrayI

Bumping.

I just want to get an idea of where this page should be/will be headed before launching Finger in the Mail and sorting out Mary Kelly's Kidney.

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong about this, but given your wick check, is there really any reason to not cut Luca Brasi Sleeps With The Fishes? It seems like nearly all of its examples either fit another trope or lack context.

If someone thinks that it might be tropeworthy, then I could support sending it back to YKTTW though.

edited 3rd Jan '12 11:47:13 AM by LouieW

If there would be any trope here deserving the name Luca Brasi Sleeps With The Fishes, it would probably do best at covering the Stock Phrase portion. However, since I strongly doubt that option is even a remote possibility, given the current climate concerning Stock Phrases, the name would probably fair better as a redirect to one of the other two tropes it overlaps with (I'd prefer redirecting to Cement Shoes, if that should happen).

I'm leaning towards cut, too.

I support cutting this.

Why cut and not a rename? The description sounds like a valid trope.

So few of the current wicks and examples even fit the description; the only example that truly follows the exact outline written is the apparent Trope Namer. Most of its examples are intended to refer to other tropes or think it's a Stock Phrase.

edited 3rd Jan '12 9:58:52 AM by SeanMurrayI

The singular connotation of "Sleep With The Fishes" is common enough it should at least be a redirect to the matching trope.

Cement Shoes?

I agree that Sleeps With The Fishes should redirect there.

If Sleeps With The Fishes becomes a redirect then the misuse is going to get worse. That phrase isn't associated with this trope. That phrase just means someone was given cement shoes and thrown in a body of water. That's the biggest source of misuse this trope has been getting currently.

There is now a page action crowner for this trope here. Feel free to add options as you see fit.

Auxdarastrix,

Well, another option may be to send the trope to YKTTW for it to pick up legitimate examples since it seems like most of the ones it currently has fit other tropes better.

Hooked.

re: Shima, they're saying that Sleeps With The Fishes should redirect to Cement Shoes, not Luca Brasi Sleeps With The Fishes.

It's not clear from the crowner what would happen to incorrect examples and wicks if the option to rename wins out.

EDIT: Issue has been addressed.

edited 3rd Jan '12 6:06:01 PM by SeanMurrayI

Bumping.

There hasn't been much activity in the crowner since the last post, and it's starting to look like a consensus is growing. Does anyone have any thoughts on, maybe, putting a timer on this thread?

edited 7th Jan '12 1:23:13 PM by SeanMurrayI

We do have a pretty strong consensus, I think.

Requesting a timer be placed on this thread to before calling the crowner.

edited 9th Jan '12 1:52:28 PM by SeanMurrayI

Here's the timer.

Timer ran out last night; I'd say it's time to call the crowner.

Before this gets added to the cutlist, however, I'm gonna be moving examples to better pages and change wicks to reflect that.

EDIT: That's all done. Now requesting the crowner be called and adding to cutlist, and if there's nothing else left to be done, a lock on the thread.

edited 13th Jan '12 6:16:43 AM by SeanMurrayI

Thanks for your help here. The only thing left was to edit out the uses of the Luca Brasi Sleeps With The Fishes on indexes and such. Now that that is done, I think we are set here.

edited 13th Jan '12 7:24:18 AM by LouieW