General Star Wars Thread

Right next to Admiral Kill Deathmurder of the 666th fleet.

Seriously, this is getting ridiculous. First "General Grievous" (which can be justified since that's a title he earned) and now this?

Are they taking names from players of The Old Republic or something?

Speaking of Maul, he was originally intended to be a woman◊! This design ended up being used for the Nightsisters, and later Maul was connected to them, anyway. Possible Mythology Gag?

Quite possibly so, yes.

You know, episode 3 left me with a tiny question, which I-m sure it-s explained in Expanded Universe material, but sadly I can-t seem to find any of it where I live.

How does Orders 65 and 66 (I think 65 was the other one, the one where the clones would have killed Palpatine, or was it 63?) work? Is it something written in their DNA or a formal order they are instructed into? If so, then why can't the Jedi override said order, being that there's a counterpart to cause the opposite scenario? And further still, if there's an order that would've resulted in the clones going against Palpatine and the senate, why didn't they do that in the first place instead of marching in a suicide mission?

And please, don't answer with it's the prequels, what did you expect?

I always just assumed the clones were just made to be suicidally loyal to their leader(s).

That's the impression I got from Battlefront II's storyline where the Kaminoans(?) rebelled by making the clones they had made recently fight the Empire, thus making the Empire decide to (from that point forward) enlist or draft for stormtroopers.

edited 25th Feb '12 5:01:38 PM by NULLcHiLD27

wait, what? Weren't the Kamiroans allied with Palpatine from the beginning? Crap, I know I read that somewhere...

No clue really. I haven't "stepped" into the Star Wars universe in years, so I'm basically telling you things I only sort of remember and the assumptions I have based on those vague memories.

Darth Maul and the Nightsisters might have been early pre-production, but I know that Ventress was the original design for Dooku's character.

I'm pretty sure the Kaminoans were duped too. They honestly believed they were making the army for the Republic because Jedi Master Sifa Dyes(?) commissioned them to.

The original concept had the clones being commissioned by "Master Sido-Dyas," whom Obi-Wan had never heard of (bet you can't guess who he is!). In my opinion, that'd have made way more sense that introducing some random new character that the EU would have to explain.

The whole Sifo-Dyas thing is explained in the novels.Basically,he was jedi master who was (justly) paranoid that if the Republic were to come under attack,it would be defenseless, for the the republic didn't have an entire army and the jedi couldn't possible fight an entire galactic war by themselves,this sentiment is echoed by his close friend Dooku but shared by no other jedi Council member.

So basically his sentiments are caught by the ears of Darth Plagueis who under the guise of his alter ego Hego Damask(one of the wealthiest being in the galaxy), personally persuades Sifo-Dyas to go to Kamino and commision a clone army funded by Damask for the greater good of the republic and all.

Shortly after making the contract with the Kaminoans(without visiting them directly it seems),he is slain by the now ex-jedi Count Dooku,who thereafter poses and takes over the role of Sifo-Dyas in overseeing the clone project whilst also erasing records of Kamino from the temple archives,all under the orders of Sidious.

I just remembered this. Gotta love it.◊

I'm going to do the film review for my College application on A New Hope. Aside from the fact that it lets me get my nerd on, I can ramble on about the innovations in effects and editing, the use of simple but memorable characterisation and the influences of action serials, horror flicks, science fiction, Akira Kurosawa etc on Lucas and how they shine through.

I find it hilarious that some of the best fight choreography in the series (Episode 1's final battle) involved the most impractical weapon in the entire series (A double-sided lightsaber). Seriously, Darth Maul was more at risk of cutting his own limbs off than getting killed by the two Jedi he was fighting.

Also, he really should have survived. The entire point of the villain is that he's a silent evil force, a hunter who is relentless and unstoppable. By only having him in two fights before getting offed, he doesn't feel relentless. Imagine if he killed Qui-Gon and then decided to leave with a smile after he noticed the operation failed? Far more menacing than two rubber body halve falling into a pit.

It's possible to write a villain with little character, but you have to really show that he's unstoppable, a force of nature almost, and Maul just didn't feel that way when he got offed.

edited 26th Feb '12 12:58:20 PM by Scardoll

He felt like an idiot. Seriously, what was going through his head?

Did he forget he had force powers or even a perfectly serviceable lightsaber?

And then Obi-Wan is hanging from the conveniently placed pit and he just laughs and gloats.

Seriously, having the creative team who made Knights Of The Old Republic's plot would've made for a way better series' of movies.

Yeah, it's almost like that time the Emperor was standing over his enemy laughing and gloating when he should be on his guard, then allows himself to get picked up, carried all the way across the room, and chucked down a giant shaft without bothering to use any of his wide array of powers to save himself besides flailing wildly and impotetntly with the ability he was already using.

No, wait, that's considered one of the best moments in the entire series for some reason, despite for all the same reasons necessarily being a narmful anticlimax end to a major threat. Hmm.

edited 26th Feb '12 5:41:25 PM by KnownUnknown

You can borrow my flame shield. You're going to need it.

You could argue that the emperor didn't quite see coming that Vader would have a Heel–Face Turn at the last moment. Plus, no matter how scheming and magnificent he can be, it's somewhat implied that by his demeanor in the two other movies that by the time of Jedi, his pride got him over-confident (like how he thought he had a fool-proof plan against the rebellion and whatnot). Maul's moment of gloating and childlike glee felt awfully out of place, since he had already fought and killed one of the two Jedi against him, and thinking that a Jedi hanging from a ledge is a victory is pure Genre Blindness.

edited 26th Feb '12 5:54:58 PM by ThatOneGuyNamedX

I thought that was poorly done as well. I think Darth Vader should have suddenly rushed at him, pushing him over the railing instead of the slow, escapable carry. The Darth Maul example just grates on my nerves more because he used a force push two seconds ago... then seems to think that Obi-Wan is going to hang there politely while he takes out his anger on the floor. At least Palpatine thought Vader was still loyal...

Also, this.

edited 26th Feb '12 5:58:33 PM by pyr0h1tman8

Bare in mind that Force users did not originally have the same kind of powers that they were shown to have in the prequel trilogy and subsequent material. There's nothing in the original trilogy to suggest that an old man with a walking stick can do much about being unexpectedly picked up by a six-foot cyborg and thrown down a Bottomless Pit (beyond electrocuting him, which he does do).

Except that the Visual Dictionary, which came out before there was a prequel trilogy (albeit well after the OT was originally released), says the Emperor doesn't need the cane.

edited 26th Feb '12 8:09:30 PM by HamburgerTime

Lando's entire strategy at Endor seems to hinge on an OOC moment for the Empire. This is the government of We Have Reserves incarnate. Lando charging the Imperial fleet really shouldn't bother them. What's a few ships caught in the blast? Just keep spamming that Death Star laser. It could nail capital ships in quick succession. Just take out the cruisers and have like...every damn TIE fighter zerg rush the remaining rebels until they die.

^ You mean the plan to rush the Death Star everyone thought wasn't working yet?

His whole strategy was the idea that the Rebellion put every last bit of their resources into making this attack, the Empire's fleet was there specifically to keep them being able to make an escape. If the Rebellion is going to be defeated and they can't destroy the Death Star they are going to do everything they can to hurt the Empire in some way. Regardless, just taking out the Super Star Destroyer would have been a nice send-off.

Let's go over the reasons that scene works and Maul's didn't.

• As said before, the original series did not establish anywhere near the force powers that are demonstrated in the prequels or expanded material. In fact, the Emperor's force lightning is probably the most damaging force attack in the OT, so it makes sense he would use that, since he didn't have a lightsaber on him.
• Palpatine's major flaw is established clearly as pride. With supreme confidence, he makes several assumptions that are proven wrong soon afterwards (Luke would turn to the Dark Side, the rebels on the ground wouldn't be able to destroy the shield generator, the rebel fleet would be annihilated by the Death Star's might, Darth Vader would never turn to good...). He is also very theatrical, which is why him shocking Luke makes sense. Maul, on the other hand, was shown to be a professional with little character or foibles; see his behavior on Tatooine.
• Maul was killed by the guy he was focused on. The Emperor was killed by somebody else while he was distracted.
• Maul went out with a "Wha-?" face. The Emperor went out while fatally wounding his killer with force lightning.

It's all in execution, not idea.