General Star Wars Thread

It's weird saying Superman's weakness is contrived. That's like saying the fact that Uranium can kill you is contrived.

I guess it's contrived in the sense of being too quick and effective, hence why I prefer red sunlight. You can be hurt by enriched Uranium, sure, but the ore itself is far less dangerous. There's a sliding scale at work here. But with traditional power nullifiers, the affected person goes from hero to zero in a snap, which is just as unrewarding from an action perspective. It's just too easy. The trick is to find a genuine logical weakness rather than an automatic kill-switch.

It's how it specifically weakens Superman and only Superman the way it does. Regular people are affected by Kryptonite, but in the same way as Uranium. They don't buckle in pain from its mere presence. BVS improved upon the idea by better explaining it's properties in that it interferes with Kryptonian biology and how they access their stored solar energy, an idea already demonstrated in Man of Steel. That doesn't completely fix the issue because it requires a bit of mental hurdles to get through, but it makes internal sense. As mentioned, the Logical Weakness of Superman is red sunlight because it's previously established that his powers are rooted in the stronger yellow sunlight. Similarly, some villains target Superman at night, indoors or underground, knowing he's on battery power rather than plugged in.

I also recall that in Star Wars: The Force Unleashed 2 where they actually captured Vader, and despite that series having force users on the high end of Person of Mass Destruction, they were able to hold him via heavy grade full body restraint.

edited 8th Dec '16 2:51:25 PM by KJMackley

Not to import too much politics into this thread, but - Trumplings are calling for a boycott of Star Wars, after probably false reports that the ending of Rogue One was changed to reflect an anti-Trump message.

There's nothing funny about the current political situation, but I can't help but laugh at these people nonetheless. Because the last time right-wingers tried to boycott a Star Wars film for pseudo-political reasons, it worked out so well. (Plus the number of them who are misspelling "Rogue" and apparently trying to boycott some sort of cosmetics line.)

More tickets for the rest of us, I say, and we won't have to share our oxygen with a bunch of Trumplings while we watch a movie about a multicultural (female-led) group of freedom-minded rebels launch open rebellion against a fascist, racist regime. And yes, the writers of Rogue One are strongly anti-Trump and have made no secret of that fact, so I feel even better about giving them my money.

Edit: Oh, and upon further investigation, a load of them are also soiling their diapers over the fact that the heroic cast of Rogue One is full of women (well...a woman) and people of color. Quelle surprise.

edited 8th Dec '16 10:42:19 PM by RBluefish

Honestly, the more I see of Jyn, the more I realize how tired I am of every Star Wars female lead being a Caucasian Brit (well, kinda sorta in Carrie Fisher's case). I'm starting to wonder if the reason why I have so many issues with Rey might be partially rooted in that. :|

Also, if people think a Star Wars movie is going to talk about a real-world guy that doesn't actually even exist in its setting... I mean, I hate to insult people's intelligence, but that's really really dumb, honestly.

edited 8th Dec '16 11:15:19 PM by EndlessSea

Generally speaking, the Jedi now don't have specific weaknesses and don't need them. As classical wizard-monks, they're weak to most everything that a regular person is - they have abilities and strength that make killing them harder than a regular person, but there's no single thing that's like "this is supereffective against a Jedi, and your only hope." They can be shot, stabbed, blown up, dropped off a cliff, ejected into space, crushed by weight, malnourished, etcetera and so on.

When it comes down to the wire the ability that generally keeps them alive is their agility and their senses. Defeating a Jedi should be centered around overwhelming that, or surprise - and it generally. The Clones by and large defeated scores of Jedi though mundane means, but with tactics and good old fashioned ambushes.

I wouldn't necessarily call "shooting someone in the back" an ambush. The small-unit tactics thing I can appreciate, because the one time large numbers of clones and Jedi straight-up fought each other that was one of the deciding factors (along with sheer numbers). The Jedi had also had their senses dulled by three years of war and they trusted their clones implicitly.

Reminds me of this.

They've also already criticized freaking Green Day for being "too political" post election. Have to wonder if some of them understand any of the media they consume.

edited 9th Dec '16 9:07:58 AM by Pseudopartition

"Please, keep protesting." — Marvel Comics, on fundies organizing a boycott of an issue depicting a gay marriage

edited 9th Dec '16 10:52:37 AM by HamburgerTime

As I said when I heard about this on Facebook: those kinds of people are the same ones that would actually support the Galactic Empire.

Back to Kylo for a second here, one thing I find interesting is that he's actually more redeemable from a Watsonian perspective than a Doylist one. He almost certainly doesn't have as many bodies on his hands as Vader does in-universe, but out-of-universe he deliberately slammed the Heel Face Door, which is something even Vader never did.

That's true from a doyalist perspective Vader never actually killed anyone we would actually care about on screen, only Obi-Wan but at the time we only just met him. Ren killed a fan favorite for over thirty years.

But Ren certainly killed his fair share in episode VII though, especially in the intro and the camp.

Well, he did have a hand in destroying the Hosnian system. Forget Vader and Alderaan - Kylo Ren has destroyed several entire heavily-populated worlds. I'm actually inclined to say that his body count probably trumps Vader's.

If we're defining it purely in terms of personal lightsaber-murdering, then yeah, Vader's almost certainly killed more people than Kylo Ren. But I think that's an overly narrow definition of murder.

On the subject of power nulifiers: it depend a low of the power of the chararter, Superman is so OP that kryptonie become a sensible option, since the rest is pretty much "Being batman" With jedi, they were nerfed now in the new canon so they cant be borderline one man army who rampage their way into victory so bringing tactic so more pausable

And about diversity, I just happen to talk with one of those "TFA is anti white men" and point out how the prequel which are made by George lucas can count as worst in that regard since the white protagonist turn evil, fight is best friend, kill is wife and join a miserable existence as burn out,half machine monstrosity while another white mean is reveal to be behind EVERYTHING bad....

Yeah, he didnt answer me

On the other hand, I do hope they used more minorities in villian positions since they deserve some love too

And about Kylo....yeah, a lot of that depend on how likable it is, he is too much a villian wannabe but at the same time he kill a named chararter

I suspect Kylo's obsession with Vader (and the Dark in general), is going to be very much central to his future development. Ashes of his enemies inside his quarters, Vader's helmet etc. make me think that now his personality (already torn between the Light and Dark) will start to unravel even further, especially after he killed his father. More and more of him will be replaced by a void, hollowing him out.

The point being that he isn't so much irredeemable, but rather there will no longer be anything left to redeem in him, as opposed to Vader. He succeeds in his quest, but he can no longer even feel pleasure.

So have him deteriorate into something like Darth Nihilus?

Eh. Darth Nihilus worked because he was a Humanoid Abomination. He wasn't a character, he was a force of nature. They tried to give the Sith Emperor similar powers in TOR, and it didn't quite work for a number of reasons. Trying to do the same with Kylo would just make him look even more like an angsty kid.

Now, if that's intentional, I could get behind it. Nothing is more terrifying than an angry little kid with godlike powers. But there's a fine line.

After playing Metal Gear Solid V The Phantom Pain, I wouldn't be surprised to see Kylo rub the ashes all over his face as a way of showing respect to the dead.

I'm imagining Ben carrying around a small pillbox with a bit of his grandfather's ashes.

Before every battle with Rey, he puts some on his hand and snorts it.

"Grandfather" -snorts again- "g-give me strength to kill all who would stand in our way!"

You know, it'd actually be great if Kylo's appearance got Serial Escalation as the films go on. His face becomes increasingly scarred, and his hair becomes increasingly unkempt up until we get a Venom Snake-ish rugged samurai look.

edited 9th Dec '16 3:45:37 PM by FluffyMcChicken

Punished Ben- A hero denied by his own family

I've actually thought the same thing. The very first time we see him remove his helmet, it was an effective moment because he doesn't look how you expect him to. The ominous, stalking Black Knight turns out to be a slightly weird-looking pasty-faced young guy.

Going forward, if he indeed receives an arc mirroring Rey's, he should start to properly look the part more and more. He's already picked up a badass scar from the duel with Rey, so we're halfway there - I think a Beard of Evil might be the next step.

Han "First Shot" Solo - A hero turned shadow of his former self

Leia "Big Mama" Organa - A revolutionary betrayed by her cause

Old Luke - The last guardian of a bygone past

Virtuous Traitor - A courageous warrior defeated only by an opponent's Plot Armor.

I think another great touch would be for Kylo to adopt his own unique appearance as he develops instead of clinging on to Vader's iconic look. I'd always wanted to see a character with an Eastwood-esque Mexican West garb◊ in the GFFA.

That would indeed be pretty cool.

Here's a question, come to think of it - should Kylo Ren keep wearing the helmet? It looks intimidating, but there are other means of making him look intimidating that would be less (intentionally) derivative of Vader, and might help him forge his own villainous identity. And now that we've gotten The Reveal about his face, the helmet might be less effective because there's no element of mystery to it anymore.

edited 9th Dec '16 5:55:54 PM by RBluefish

I think it's more than plausible that we actually won't be seeing the helmet again, as he dropped it on the catwalk while confronting his father on Starkiller Base.