General Star Wars Thread

I think they actually enjoy whining about it. Note that no one responded to my request to change the subject. "Oh no, someone likes a movie I don't! YOU MUST DIE!" It's an overall above-average Space Opera movie series, not a religious text.

Exactly. I love the Star Wars franchise, and it's Jerk Asses like them that sorely test my love, my patience towards this work. I don't need to change or validate my feelings about Star Wars. If I may quote John Candy in Planes Trains And Automobiles: "I could be a cold-hearted cynic like you, but I don't like hurting people's feelings. You can say what you want about me, I'm not changing."

edited 12th Feb '12 12:01:35 PM by Premonition45

I don't think anyone appreciates you strawmanning or throwing psuedo-psychological judgements around. You're unlikely to get any kind of positive, conversational response and the thread could dig itself a ditch. Let's keep things civil and together rather than continuing the divisiveness between Star Wars fans. As if we need help with that.

In any case, here's my perspective on the fanbase age bracket thing. I'm 21 years old, born in 1990. My first exposure to Star Wars must've been when I was about 5 or so, during a rerelease run of the original movies in Australian cinema. My father took me to all three.

In 1999, I saw The Phantom Menace and enjoyed it. The other prequel films, too. But even then, I didn't feel any of them had the resonance, charm or strength that the originals did. So I don't take to the argument that it's a demographic thing — I fit well into the demographic that the prequels were aimed towards, at least at their release. I only had a few years between seeing the OT and PT, and I was too young back then to even remember much.

For me though, the OT is something special in the way the PT isn't. It occupies the same place in me that the likes of Le Morte D'Arthur and Nibelungenlied do. Today, I can watch the PT and more or less enjoy it for the spectacle and action, but nothing more. The OT, on the other hand, strikes me as more of a well-structured legend or piece of folklore.

I don't absolutely hate the PT itself, but I do dislike what it represents. The PT was squandered potential and has heavily influenced other Star Wars material since in ways I consider divergent to what makes the OT so good. What was once something like a folklore tale is now... I'm not even sure. Star Wars is a pretty fractured concept right now. I liked it better when it was more focused and took itself less seriously.

I'm sorry, but the argument of "Going for a wider audience" is just an auto-cop out for something that pisses off fans.

And regardless, I've always said that any sort of media should put its fanbase first. It's fine to introduce new people to a franchise, but if you do so by just alienating your already stable and loyal fanbase, you're just being a dick.

Mind you, that's not the case for Star Wars, since beyond the whole midiclorians business the series' is pretty loyal to its original material, only not nearly as good.

Now that's a really good way to put it.

edited 12th Feb '12 1:53:40 PM by ThatOneGuyNamedX

"any sort of media should put its fanbase first"

I've always thought that line of thinking was flawed, myself. You may recall I mentioned Gary Kurtz, the man who convinced Lucas that Star Wars should be for everyone. Well, if it's supposed to be for everyone, why should hardcore fans be placed first? Besides, no work of fiction, in an attempt to bring in a new fanbase, actively tries to shoo out the old one, which seems to be what you're implying here.

Now that, I can agree with. Lucas does seem to be continually, for lack of a better term, pimping the PT. It almost seems like he considers the PT to be a better product than the OT, which is... well, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but I think most people would find that a flawed viewpoint.

Now can we please change the subject?

edited 12th Feb '12 2:05:03 PM by HamburgerTime

You should see DC's relaunch. That is completely alienating your established fanbase in an attempt to bring in a new one.

And what you said about start wars being made "for everyone" is pretty much what I was trying to say up there in my post, Star Wars didn't completely go out of it's way to bring in a new audience since as a franchise, Star Wars is something everyone can enjoy just jumping into any of the movies, which is why almost everybody likes the series' to a certain degree.

Now, the Expanded Universe, on the other hand is something no one outside the fanbase would just "jump in".

But you're right, this topic's old as time itself. Let's just change the subject.

Whatever happened to Jake Loyd? I know he does conventions and such, but The Phantom Menace is the only film I've ever seen him in.

Just one last question: do you think DC was deliberately trying to dump their old fanbase with the relaunch?

And as to a new subject, again, did anyone here get Book of Sith?

No, but they did, as a consequence for trying to "reset" the continuity (which they didn't even do, the real reason for it was to include characters from another company they bought off). Now, despite this there are some incredibly good books in their lineup (every batman book, the Teen Titans, Justice League International, etc.), but this is a Star Wars topic, not "bitch about DC ditching almost twenty years of continuity, then don't" thread.

And no, I haven't gotten it. Have you?

edited 12th Feb '12 2:33:59 PM by ThatOneGuyNamedX

No, I haven't, that's why I'm so interested in it. I love Dan Wallace, and would trust him with pretty much anything in the Star Wars universe. He loves his Continuity Porn and is a really nice guy besides, always keeps in contact with the fans. I've spoken to him myself, via his blog.

Sounds really cool, I've heard wonders of that guy. I don't think I'll be able to get it any time soon because most Expanded Universe materials are impossible to get in this country (mostly due to the stigma against anything remotely nerdy we have over here).

I sometimes wonder if a hibernation period of sorts for Star Wars would do some good. One of things that prevented the franchise from getting too over-saturated to an audience was that it more or less went quiet from 84-91. As it is we've had an explosion of material for 20 years now from a multitude of comics, endless books, a cavalcade of games, 3 of the original films re-released in theaters, 4 new movies over 9 years, with 6 movies to be re-released in 3D, and two television shows, with another on its way.

Now its never going to happen because there's way too much of a cottage industry to pretty much everything Star Wars related now, but in an ideal world there would be a period where the franchise could effectively step away for a bit, recharge its batteries, and maybe when it comes back, a new creative force could oversee it. I'm not saying no EU material (books, games) at all, just maybe a scaling back so there isn't such a surplus of it.

I'm not strawmanning anybody. In fact, I'm trying to stop strawmanning. I'm tired of the division, the antagonism between fans. I'm tired of somebody telling me what I can or can't like.

By calling us Cynics and saying basically long time fans are just butthurt, and that If you think the star wars prequels aren't as good as the originals you're WRONG.

Your logic is truly eye-opening.

Whatever, just let it go. If you like the prequels or not, that's your deal, no one here's judging. Now let's just change the subject, for Christ's sakes.

The franchise could use a cooldown, yeah. And a good change of direction, instead of filling in gaps in between movies, it could explore everything that happened after the events of the OT.

A Rogue Squadron-based movie or show would be pretty cool.

edited 12th Feb '12 4:14:06 PM by ThatOneGuyNamedX

I'm sorry if I'm coming off antagonistic myself.

It's cool. Just try not to point fingers when trying to make a point unless it's absolutely necessary.

I'm sorry. It's all this fury among fans that's really taxing. It should stop, and yet it won't.

Every fandom is like that at some point or around some issue. Talking about it even more isn't going to help anything.

edited 12th Feb '12 5:28:14 PM by ThatOneGuyNamedX

But Star Wars goes above and beyond in Broken Bases. Which is why talking is important. I'd think it's better to try to talk things out, to try to bring the broken base together, thank to leave the base broken altogether.

edited 12th Feb '12 5:54:49 PM by Premonition45

Many fans of the Star Wars don't like the prequels, because they think they're bad movies. When I started watching X-Men: The First Class, I started noticing how it contradicted some elements in the earlier movies but then just ignored it, because the movie was good on its own anyway.

The Broken Base nature of the Star Wars fandom is about as iconic as most of their aspects. On some level you just have to accept it.

I know people who hate the prequels for legit reasons, but I also know people who hate the prequels on principle and without actual reason. I know people who put some of the prequels on the same level as the originals, but not others, and I know people who dislike some of the originals on the same levels as the originals. I even know people who love the prequels and hate the originals.

Everything is relative.

^ That's a slightly different issue - comic fans who hate adaptations because BLARG IT'S DIFFERENT THAN THE SOURCE have kind of fallen out of style, particularly as these days comic adaptations tend to end up good movies on their own right.

edited 13th Feb '12 5:28:25 AM by KnownUnknown

Well, getting back to what we love about Star Wars, was there a particular scene that won you over?

The scene that made me a Star Wars fan was in A New Hope, when R2 and Threepio are walking in the desert, lost and arguing. Something about that struck a chord in my 5-year-old mind.

I was six years old or so and I thought the X-wing starfighters were the coolest thing ever.

Vader throwing the emperor off a conveniently placed giant pit of death. Or the death star exploding. Or maybe the battle at Hoth.

I was pretty young, so I don't remember, but I think it was because it was one of the biggest examples of a universe - a setting which made me want to learn more, characters I wanted to see through to the end, etc - and story I just had to finish. It had me hanging on the whole way through.

The scene on Dagobah in Return, I think, immediately come to mind as my favorite scenes back then, even though I can't entirely remember all my reasons why. The tense feeling on Bespin is another one that comes to mind (the tense aura of Empire as a whole is one of the reasons its my favorite of the series).