Tsundere vs Yandere

Anime likes to suggest so.

Anime is fictional. Also, unlike what is suggested in this thread, the abusive type of Tsundere is quite common in anime, which is why my exagerated scenario is closer to the truth than most otakus would like to admit.

Not true, in anime there's also the Yamato Nadeshiko, which is probably the best pick of the three.

No, it's not. It's just very common in the last decade since first Love Hina and then Shakugan No Shana came out. Both in the last two years and before those anime there were plenty of non-violent Tsundere.

edited 11th Dec '11 7:48:33 AM by Sackett

Bullshit, Tsunderes are more like little kids who pick on each other to show their feelings than your exaggerated scenario.

The problem is, that while maybe in a certain sense, "the abusive type of Tsundere is quite common in anime", consider that slapstick violence in general is quite common in anime. In the kind of shows where the protagonist gets kicked in the crotch and punched in the face by an angry Tsundere after opening the door on her bathing, he would also get assaulted by a Yamato Nadeshiko, or a Genki Girl. It's that type of show. And in other types, the Tsundere is no more than a sharp-tongued, or dismissive, or an awkward, childishly hostile girl.

By focusing on some more specific genre styles, you aren't revealing any sort of "The Truth" about the trope itself. You might as well "deconstruct" Tsundere by claiming that since many of them appear in anime, where they are drawn in 2D, it means that in real life, they would stay flat, and be blown away by a mild wind.

I mean, d'uh, it goes without a saying that if you want to put a trope in a realistic context, you actually need to make every part of the context realistic. And physical violence is that: a type of context, a way the trope can be shown, without being a requirement of the trope itself.

Besides, even the details of your "scenario" are stinking. None of the Tsundere characters I am aware of, ever continued being violent, or even Tsundere at all, after becoming an Official Couple. It doesn't work like "showing off her love to you by pinning you to the wall with a butcher's knife". That's not Tsundere, that's Yandere.

A Tsundere would be "showing off her love" by hugging, and kissing, and saying "I love you". That's the so-called dere side. The Tsun side is exactly about not showing their love, and it's whole purpose of the trope. That they don't want to admit that they are in love, so they use all these tactics, to appear less dere than they are.

The whole thing is mostly a Courtship trope, that can't be applied to long term relationships where the characters or people actually admit loving each other.

edited 11th Dec '11 11:33:57 AM by Ever9

If I had to choose between the two, I'd go for a more subdued Tsundere (think Kallen), not the abusive ones. Personally, I prefer Yamato Nadeshiko, Genki Girl, or Shrinking Violet.

Yamato Nadeshiko are freaking boring. Plucky Girl all the way.

Modern Tsundere are as bad and dangerous as Yandere, especially the 'Punch you into the stratosphere because you walked into your own bath where she was bathing without telling you first' kind. But yeah, the old Type B is safe.

edited 11th Dec '11 11:53:46 AM by NapoleonDeCheese

Yamato Nadeshiko are only boring when that's pretty much all you can say about the character in question.

Both Yamato Nadeshiko and Shrinking Violet are boring, not equal partners at all.

Plucky Girl is ok, but they are usualy flat and not much smart ( but when there are exeption, they are always awesome).

Kuuderes are pretty much ideal: sharp, sense for humor, but stil often more straitforward then Tsundere.

edited 11th Dec '11 1:16:07 PM by Tenzen12

If a yandere fell in love with me, I couldn't refuse them, but I don't see a reason to date with a mentally dangerous person. Even the worst Tsundere would be a better choice.

Yanderekko I mostly want to strangle, Tsunderekko I mostly want to beat senseless. Hitting is easier than strangling, so I suppose I ought to go with a tsundere.

It's a bit of a moot point, seeing as I'm dating a male yamato nadeshiko.

edited 11th Dec '11 2:41:25 PM by FurikoMaru

Just checked the trope page, and Ishtar from The Epic Of Gilgamesh is listed as a Yandere. Gilgamesh turns down sleeping with her, and she sends a murderous bull after him. So that settles that question.

(Oh, and Tsundere > Yandere. By far. Especially the non-flanderized, non-cartoonishly violent kind.)

edited 11th Dec '11 10:38:12 PM by BokhuraBurnes

i would have posted Yandere
but School Days taught me something

edited 12th Dec '11 6:01:23 AM by CommanderObvious

Poor Gilgamesh, gets a life of punishment because he refuses to have sex with sluts craving for his alpha cock.

Considering that Gilgamesh only likes a certain virginal Kuudere who exists millennia after his death, it just seems even more sad.

Actually Saber's not a virgin and Gilgamesh seemed very fond of Enkidu from his own time (although Enkidu is a guy...).

And on topic, can Yandere obsession really be called love?

edited 14th Dec '11 5:38:25 AM by UltimatelySubjective

Gilgamesh only likes Saber because she looks like Enkidu. :[

I'd say it depends on the Yandere. Much like Tsunderes, Yanderes come in different degrees on intensity, although unlike Tsunderes, everyone tends to lump them all together.

I'm pretty certain Saber was a virgin when Gilgamesh met her first (in the Fourth Holy Grail War). By the time Gilgamesh squared up against Shirou, it was a different story.

Didn't she and Guinevere ever do the hanky panky?

Mordred.

In both cases, the answer is no, but I think if I explain I'm going to either incite a derail or kill the topic entirely.

Besides, it was explicitly mentioned in the VN that she is a virgin, at least twice.

edited 15th Dec '11 12:54:54 AM by Ever9

I would rather Date a Bro-dere.