Shouldn't we be listing examples of characters?: English Rose

So right now this trope page's examples is a list of actresses who often play this character type. I think we should list examples of characters that are English roses instead of just actresses that play them. It's not like this trope doesn't extend outside live action works.

edited 1st Nov '11 10:24:41 AM by captainpat

Dear god. Yes, this should be examples of characters. It's not even indexed in any trope categories. It's a drool page.

edited 1st Nov '11 10:31:27 AM by Madrugada

ಠ_ಠ

Okay, I can see the benefit to compiling that list, but whose bright idea was it to do that instead of collecting examples?

The description reads like a British version of Proper Lady, Spirited Young Lady, or any of the prim and proper lady tropes we have. Any other distinction here?

Outside of being British? No. But that's justification enough for me.

It may predate them as a page. The earliest edit on the English Rose page is March of last year, and it was an addition to the list. The earliest addition on Proper Lady is in April of last year.

It's also a term used in media for a character type. It's a Proper Lady subtrope though.

edited 1st Nov '11 11:31:17 AM by shimaspawn

Is it a term for a character or actress?

Character type.

Ok, well the trope description says that an English Rose can also be a Spirited Young Lady so I'm not sure it's a subtrope of Proper Lady.

A quick look shows this being used in Brit media to describe actresses, so while we should have characters too, listing actresses is not out of place.

[1]

Jean Simmons: an unforgettable English Rose - Philip French pays tribute to the Rank Organisation starlet who went on to become one of Hollywood's most luminous actresses

[2]

The English rose is an elusive hotty — a refined kind of understated beauty — she's the perfect marriage material.

The kind of woman that when you turn up after football on a Saturday morning you find her in the kitchen whipping up a fresh batch of homemade scones before crashing on with her latest children's book.

The English rose is educated, cultured, vivacious and has a great sense of humour, she knows her Keates from her Blake, can darn a sock in a flash and describes where things are by the county they're in.

In honour of the English rose we've rounded up, what we think are the finest examples of English feminine rosiness. Our criteria? Simple: Does she know the difference between a jam and a conserve? And could she make one?

edited 1st Nov '11 1:59:43 PM by Auxdarastrix

Proper ladies are pretty much gentry and up by definition, English Roses don't have to be, though they usually are, so I think its more of a related trope than a direct subtrope.

So...what characters fit?

Rose comes to mind.

edited 1st Nov '11 8:00:09 PM by NoirGrimoir

English Rose is also largely a looks-specific trope.

"She will usually be slight and pale and perhaps most often blonde (though raven-haired or even red-headed varieties are far from uncommon), and will have a sort of otherworldly ethereal beauty instead of massive casabas."

edited 2nd Nov '11 8:22:37 AM by peccantis

That's hardly a specific look. "Usually", "most often", and "sort of otherworldly ethereal beauty" points at nothing. Also, massive casabas, ugh, just say large boobs.

It's covered by "She is virtuous and possesses a certain type of modest beauty" in the first line anyway. I cut a bit of that part from the first paragraph, as it was incredibly vague and/or was already covered in the same paragraph.

By the way, "You'll recognise her when you see her" tells you absolutely nothing about the trope. The way it's currently described, this trope looks pretty subjective (I'm not saying it is, just that the description makes it seem that way), so we need to find the objective requirements so people can list actual examples of characters. What are the absolutely necessary traits for an English Rose? What traits are impossible in one?

One of the unfortuante side effects of using a Real Life prexisting term is that it has a tendency to accumulate a lot of diverse and ill defined associations. I'm not saying, mind you, that we shouldn't have this. I do think that if we want to address this term, we should consider how it is used off this wiki

Try the following:

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]

[5]

Ah, yes, that makes it a bit clearer.

Actually, this character type seems pretty similar to the "nice" variant of The Ojou. Cool.

Are we sure this is a character type? Because I don't think I've seen this term used anywhere to describe a specific character.

Except in Britain.

edited 2nd Nov '11 1:12:41 PM by NoirGrimoir

What? I mean a fictional character.

You ninja'd me.

Reading those articles, I'd say that she wouldn't fall into the Spirited Young Lady category, since most of them emphasized characteristics that could be listed as "demure, diplomatic, and domestic".

It seems like Proper Lady + a bit of The Ingenue + certain appearance standards + British = English Rose