Change Description (New Crowner Jan 15): Super Weight

I think we can squeeze that in.

I think "Can not be killed/destroyed permanently would be better." Even at author weight they will sometimes get knocked down only to get up again, especially as a fake out.

As of now that level seems to be populated mostly by a.) unseen characters, and b.) Author Avatars who rarely if ever get to prove their power.

So this is what happens when you're not around for a debate. A page you like becomes a page you hate. What was so bad about the old super weight? Five clear classes, revised so there would be no more mistakes. It seemed to work, I looked away, now I am too late.

Question: since we've got subpages for this now, how would others feel if we made use of folders for longer game series?

For instance, there could be a folder for the Final Fantasy series and its spinoffs, and I could probably create separate entries for the Shin Megami Tensei series as well. Even the entries that summarize an entire series could benefit, as right now the Legend of Zelda and Disgaea entries are crammed with examples.

I actually meant to do that already. I just forgot about it.

As long as we're talking about folders and not separate namespaces.

edited 5th Mar '12 7:08:29 AM by KingZeal

I think we need to clarify at what point a type 5 crosses into a type 6.

Type 5: Can affect an entire "world" which is equal to or greater than Earth in scope and scale. Possible effects are irrelevant; ability to broadcast planet-wide psychic message, World-Healing Wave, World-Wrecking Wave, or extinction-level Depopulation Bomb are all the same scale.

A Type 5 may be able to cause an Earth-Shattering Kaboom, but only a single planet at a time.

Ah. Thanks for that.

Single planet is arbitrary. It shouldn't matter how many planets you can effect if you can only do a basic thing.

Superboy Prime, "cosmic powerhouse", can shatter entire planets with fists. But super strength is super strength, he can hit things hard but everyone's Willing Suspension of Disbelief went in the toilet when he changed time by punching it. Characters like Galactus and Odin have all sorts of mumbo jumbo that pulls at the heart strings of existence but existence isn't a thing to grab otherwise. Time isn't tangible, it passes. Audience reactions aside, he could only do so when he was in a certain spot it wasn't an innate ability, ordinarily he can't punch time, only objects. He'd be a comfortable three on the old list.

Take Broly from Dragon Ball and Silver Surfer from Marvel. The former can destroy galaxies in seconds, the latter can't. On the old scale it wouldn't have gotten much thought, Broly had enough for type three. Could Broly beat Silver Surfer in a fight? Yes but it wouldn't matter. Can Broly return life to a planet he accidentally pushes out of orbit? Can he drain the energy out of the killer robot's battle cells designed to kill him and the rest of his kind? Can he escape a black hole or tell when another is forming or going dormant across the universe while tracking fluctuating tachyons from a space craft trying to escape him?

All type 3 stuff, what moved Silver Surfer up to four was that he could peel back the pages of time, show Broly an image of his most hated enemy then have him waste his energy battling a construct from the past while using what Broly gave off to tun each individual molecule in Broly's being to a separate form of vomit. He could exit the current space time and leave behind a figure of unbreakable adamatium that manipulated light waves and electrical signals to make Broly think he was fighting Surfer while Surfer transfigured the air in Broly's bowels into rat poison.

That's the power bullshplot devic cosmic. Even a little power cosmic will always trump anything that isn't as equally cruel in its domination of reality. Sure, Broly's stronger lasers and punches means he might beat the Silver Surfer in a fight but we aren't asking who would win. Clearly the weakest type four was ridiculously more versatile than the strongest type 3, Odin has just as much destructive power as Broly, but he wouldn't be bothered by anything Surfer could come up with because he can mess with reality on a galactic scale, not blow up stuff, that's why he'd be four.

Any idiot with a rock salt filled shot gun could beat Harry Potter but it takes a special idiot to leap a building in a single bound just because he's stressed, to turn his skin on fire to burn the skin of someone else attacking him. We knew the difference between one and two, two and three, three and four. I can't help but think we could have done with four categories and that having more than five feels unnecessary.

We've gone through that utility/scale argument. We lost. So, the list is what it is. And right now, "ability to affect a planet" is Type 5 while "works on cosmic/macrocosmic scale" is Type 6.

In the Comics section, I just noticed that there are a few type 7s in DC. Shouldn't there only be one according to the definition of omnipotent?

edited 6th Mar '12 7:21:46 AM by pyr0h1tman8

I think we discussed that last page. If I'm not mistaken.

Ah. Sorry. My bad.

Although I have to ask, how are they then separate from a type 6?

edited 6th Mar '12 9:18:37 AM by pyr0h1tman8

• World Weight is Exactly What It Says on the Tin, having power that can affect an entire planet or world, if not several of them.
• Cosmic Weight is also Exactly What It Says on the Tin, having power on the cosmic scale, having a wide-reaching scope of power (that could be measured in solar systems or galaxies). A Reality Warper with nearly endless warping abilities with unlimited power would also go here. All examples would qualify as being some kind of Cosmic Entity.
• Author Weight: The Omnipotent and immortal.

Hope that helps. I had really thought they were all self-explanatory.

edited 6th Mar '12 9:21:59 AM by shiro_okami

Hm. Every attempt I've made to explain it in this reply has been a contradiction. Therefore, I think you've addressed a good point.

Two questions, then:

1. What is the difference between a story with "two or more equal Type 7s" and a Type 6?
2. Can there even be more than one Type 7 per story?

I still insist on saying "cosmic or macrocosmic" scale. Your last sentence basically covers this in a sense, but I'd like to state that being able to alter space and matter at its most basic properties (the microscopic) is just as much a Story-Breaker Power, regardless of the setting. Being able to create a galaxy cluster within a space no bigger than a thimble is still a Type 6.

edited 6th Mar '12 9:21:23 AM by KingZeal

Altering space and matter like to such a degree would essentially be the same thing as the type of Reality Warper I just described. And I'm not entirely sure the word "macrocosmic" fits how you're using it.

edited 6th Mar '12 9:27:40 AM by shiro_okami

Yes, and I said exactly that. I'm just using a more specific wording, since people are asking for more clarification.

Oops, I meant "microcosmic"; in other words, an entire cosmos of things too small or precise for human beings to affect within current science.

edited 6th Mar '12 9:31:51 AM by KingZeal

OK, that makes more sense. Although, I think "microscopic" would be fit the definition you're using more literally and would probably be understood better.

Also, if such a character had "microcosmic" power, what would prevent them from having "macrocosmic" power?

edited 6th Mar '12 9:40:26 AM by shiro_okami

See above edit.

A story with two level sevens would be a story with multiple authors, two conflicting authors, an editor, ect. That's how a story with two type fives was.

Vickie Guerrero cannot force Vince Mcmahon to do anything because she only has authority on screen. Vince is above plot, only other people in similar authority can truly challenge him. If the Staple's Center owner says he isn't going to host the WWE show, Vince is going to have problems. If the Nuggets coach convinces him the WWE reservation is not important, he can force Vince to film in a different location.

More in story, all three "Chousin" in Tenchi Muyo can destroy or remake their multiverse into whatever they want it to be. The only things stopping one from doing as she pleases is the other two and their editor. The editor has a couple pet characters they aren't allowed to dispose of or treat too badly who could also qualify once they become aware of their status.(as stated, they don't show up in normal stories)

Being in the same weight class shouldn't automatically make any two individuals equal, it should simply mean they have qualifications that the class below them doesn't.

edited 6th Mar '12 11:58:59 AM by Cider

That would be simpler, but it wouldn't be completely accurate. "Microcosm" is an actual word.

It's a matter of perspective. From the perspective of a Cosmic Entity or Dimension Lord, Earth or our entire galaxy might be a "microcosm" while the universe or multiverse would be normal scale. From the perspective of someone like Franklin Richards (check out the page image there), the universe he creates is his microcosm. He is literally God there, and he has often visited that universe when he wanted to escape the "real" world from time to time.

Again, we can't get too caught up with this whole "whose powers are more massive than others" point. The scale we have now allows us to tiptoe around utility vs scale rather neatly. Let's not rock that boat.

Also, I like the way Cider summed up the Type 7 issue.

edited 6th Mar '12 11:16:11 AM by KingZeal

Question: It says that a single work needs at least four rankings. What counts as "a single work"? If one puts an example spanning various seasons of Power Rangers, does that count as "a single work"? Would a series of films count as "a single work"?

edited 6th Mar '12 11:35:07 AM by ThatHuman

Yes, entries can be made from an entire series. If a certain part of a series has enough entries to fill the four, it too can have its own entry. Final Fantasy works this way.

edited 6th Mar '12 11:38:37 AM by EarlOfSandvich

@ King Zeal: Yes, I know "microcosm" is a word. I was consulting that very dictonary.com page you referenced during our discussion.

I'm OK with including microcosmic power, but only in reference to a Reality Warper. A Reality Warper is the only character type I can think of whose abilities could possibly offset limited power magnitude, as opposed to a person with a generic specialized superpower.

On a side note, I find your example interesting, considering that Franklin Richards' Bigger on the Inside universe is essentially showing power on both microcosmic AND macrocosmic scale at the same time.

edited 6th Mar '12 12:07:16 PM by shiro_okami