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Total posts: [62]
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Why is this Western-specific?: Most Common Superpower get usage counts

 1 USAF713, Tue, 13th Sep '11 4:04:09 PM from the United States
I changed accounts.
Why is this Western-specific? Why is this superhero-specific? I don't understand; large breasts on females shows up in almost every genre and every medium (with real life casting to substitute for drawing style in live-action). I guess we could justify it as the page would be too big, but then again it's nearly an Omnipresent Trope.

At the very least, I would say that it's not Western-specific. Is a superpowered person in an Eastern work different somehow, on an inherent level, from a Western one? I would say no, in relation to this trope. Furthermore, the trope says it applies to Badass Normals, so the name doesn't even make sense... well, unless they really are a superpower, but...

edited 13th Sep '11 4:04:26 PM by USAF713

I am now known as Flyboy.
 2 shimaspawn, Tue, 13th Sep '11 4:08:28 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
Yes, but females don't ALWAYS have large breasts in other genre. That's the trope. Yes, the genres are different. Western Style superheroes follow different genre conventions than Eastern characters with superpowers.

We have been through this many many times. I really don't want to have this same conversation again.

edited 13th Sep '11 4:10:59 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
 3 Madrugada, Tue, 13th Sep '11 4:10:53 PM Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
Previous threads here (oldest); here (more recent) and here (tangent, but relevant).

Basically, we've been trying to keep this from turning into "character has big boobs" ever since it was created. This is the latest attempt.

edited 13th Sep '11 4:11:00 PM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
 4 USAF713, Tue, 13th Sep '11 4:12:28 PM from the United States
I changed accounts.
We have a trope for females with big breasts.

So, we need a trope for when another trope happens to occur more frequently in a single medium? Normally when that happens we just split the page into its own subpage for that medium. I don't understand why this one is getting special privileges.

I simply don't see why this trope exists at all, let alone why we should have it instead of simple Buxom Is Better.
I am now known as Flyboy.
 5 shimaspawn, Tue, 13th Sep '11 4:14:20 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
We do not have a trope for women with big breasts actually. We have many tropes that people misuse for women with large breasts, but we have no tropes that are just for pointing out women with big breasts. You are misusing Buxom Is Better. That's about when a preference for large breasts is pointed out In-Universe.

This trope is an Enforced Trope by the comicbook industry for any Superheroine over the age of 18.

edited 13th Sep '11 4:14:59 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
Buxom Is Better is not for random big breasts. It's for when a busty character is portrayed as superior to a flat-chested one.

EDIT: Damn you, ninja Gir!!!!

edited 13th Sep '11 4:16:48 PM by KingZeal

 7 USAF713, Tue, 13th Sep '11 4:16:07 PM from the United States
I changed accounts.
We have Buxom Is Better, which is when an author makes a woman have big breasts for the sake of it, because they believe it makes them more attractive, period.

Why is this it's own trope, then, instead of just a part of playing with the established trope? And, furthermore, where are the other ones?
I am now known as Flyboy.
I do agree that the tropes sound a little similar. Most Common Superpower is no different than Boobs of Steel.
 
 9 shimaspawn, Tue, 13th Sep '11 4:18:19 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
[up][up] That's not what Buxom Is Better is! It has nothing to do with the author. It has to do with an In-Universe preference for larger chests. Please stop misusing that trope.

[up] Boobs of Steel is when the strongest physical fighter has the largest rack. Read the damn tropes.

edited 13th Sep '11 4:20:12 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
Cure Candy
Yeah... me and shima are always dukeing it out over this... I am really sorry I brought it up again, but the description needs an overhaul anyway.

I have really wanted to split up the types Big Breasts, Big Deal to cover the big issues with breasts and there rather massive misuse of other tropes... all the misuse is generally under type 4 in that unknown trope. (or a general Drawn Buxom trope for artists choices in general.)

edited 13th Sep '11 4:20:39 PM by Raso

Again, this is actually enforced in the comic book industry. During my teens to early adulthood, I tried to self-teach myself to become a comic book artist, so I own a number of "How To" books on comic book art.

A common theme throughout all of those books is to constantly reiterate that "Superheroes = ungodly perfect physical specimens". Men have Heroic Builds, women have Most Common Superpower. If a superheroine stands next to a regular woman, the superheroine is supposed to look more bangable. And since most artists can draw Only Six Faces, boob size is the easiest way to portray that.

They also state that the surest way to differentiate between a Kid Hero and an adult superheroine is to make one have larger boobs than the other.

This is SO A TROPE, it hurts.

edited 13th Sep '11 4:23:30 PM by KingZeal

 12 USAF713, Tue, 13th Sep '11 4:22:27 PM from the United States
I changed accounts.
Then Buxom Is Better is disagreeing with its own definition.

First paragraph:

Within various media there is a prevalent assumption among story writers, artists, etc., that large(r) breasts automatically make a woman more attractive; this often leads to "excessive" focus on said breasts (even if this assumption is not stated in the text), or the character with the largest breasts getting treated as the most attractive in-universe (regardless of who the fans think is really the most attractive).

Later:

This trope is not "characters with large breasts" regardless of whether or not the character is the target of most of the Fanservice.

The trope contradicts its own definition in an attempt to make that definition very narrow. Which is fine, I suppose, if it's consistent.

However, I don't see why a trope should depend on a lampshade/acknowledgement to exist. I suppose that could make it YMMV (although this one is rather... obvious), but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

This trope is so frequent and pervasive that a list of straight examples is impractical (like another certain trope)

So, I ask again, when this is a practical trope for the sake of playing with a trope, why is it separate? I thought the only time we make a playing with a trope is when it's a subversion/aversion, because it becomes a separate (and often, opposing) trope all it's own.

edited 13th Sep '11 4:23:13 PM by USAF713

I am now known as Flyboy.
I don't see the inconsistency in the parts you quoted.

A character being seen as attractive in-universe and a character being fanservice are two different things.

 14 shimaspawn, Tue, 13th Sep '11 4:26:07 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
Fanservice is not the same thing as In-Universe attractiveness.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
 15 USAF713, Tue, 13th Sep '11 4:27:33 PM from the United States
I changed accounts.
Well then Most Common Superpower should emphasize not the big breasts part (which is basically meaningless as a trope distinction) but the lack of acknowledgement in-universe, which is generally present whenever the trope shows up.

With that distinction, though, it's "superpower" name and Western-specificness makes no sense.
I am now known as Flyboy.
[up] What?

 17 USAF713, Tue, 13th Sep '11 4:31:20 PM from the United States
I changed accounts.
Buxom Is Better is about how big-breasted women will get special treatment in-universe. Compare this trope, which is about how superpowered individuals (apparently only in Western media) will always have ideal builds, but nobody will generally comment on it.

If that's the distinction, then it not only can and probably does apply to Eastern fiction as well, but it also ceases to be a "superpower, " especially since even the trope page for it admits that it does apply to Badass Normal characters, which aren't always superheroes.
I am now known as Flyboy.
 18 Mousa The 14, Tue, 13th Sep '11 4:32:39 PM from Northern Virginia Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Artist, Writer, Ignored
Most Common Superpower is a Superhero trope, not a breasts or attractiveness trope, but a trope about how a specific body trope is extremely pervasive in the superhero genre, it's not that difficult to figure out. It's so simple that attempts to make it more complicated out of some need to make every trope inclusive is mind boggling.

It's not an attempt to limit it or make it Western specific, it's where it came from and it's where it exists, it's as simple as that, why does everyone want to expand it into a general breasts page, we have dozens others for that!

I mean we have video game tropes, I don't see anyone trying to expand those beyond that, these things happen, live with it, end of story.

edited 13th Sep '11 4:33:44 PM by MousaThe14

My Art |Bloggening

When All Else Fails, worry, that's the 14 way.
[up][up] Except people in-universe comment on it all the time.

edited 13th Sep '11 4:34:22 PM by KingZeal

 20 USAF713, Tue, 13th Sep '11 4:35:18 PM from the United States
I changed accounts.
Because I don't really think that we need that many tropes for very similar phenomenon, and just because an idea originates somewhere doesn't mean it can't be used elsewhere. Does Japanese media use only Japanese-cultural ideas? Since they have a distinct fascination with Western knights and Christianity, I would say, obviously, no. Likewise, American media has a distinct fascination with ninjas and samurai.

I don't think it should be Western-specific, nor do I think the "superhero" is a Western-specific idea, since it's merely a Cyclical Trope for the Knight in Shining Armor.

Except people in-universe comment on it all the time.

Which would make it Buxom Is Better, no?

edited 13th Sep '11 4:36:45 PM by USAF713

I am now known as Flyboy.
 21 shimaspawn, Tue, 13th Sep '11 4:37:24 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
It's not Western Specific. It's specific to Western Style Superheroes. There are anime with Western Style Superheroes. Tiger & Bunny is one. They're just rare.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
Cure Candy
Tiger & Bunny are not this in any way, Dragon Kid is a tomboyish pettanko and Blue Rose uses padding on her costume.

edited 13th Sep '11 4:40:20 PM by Raso

 23 USAF713, Tue, 13th Sep '11 4:39:58 PM from the United States
I changed accounts.
Except Western-style superheroes are merely an expression of an older idea, the oldest recognizable form of which is the European knight.

Furthermore, I would say that things like Magical Girls are effectively a different expression of the same idea. Why are they precluded from the same standard?

I think, plainly, that this is a poor distinction. Conversely, a lack of in-universe acknowledgement is actually a pretty good one, but it would redefine the trope.

edited 13th Sep '11 4:41:29 PM by USAF713

I am now known as Flyboy.
Which would make it Buxom Is Better, no?

No. It would make it overlap with Buxom Is Better the same way Action Hero can overlap with Superhero Packing Heat.

For the record though, I do agree that this should not be inclusive to western superheroes.

edited 13th Sep '11 4:41:22 PM by KingZeal

[up][up][up] Yes, Blue Rose is subverting the trope.

edited 13th Sep '11 4:40:45 PM by captainpat

Total posts: 62
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