Yaoi: what to avoid

I'm actually doing what Oh So Into Cats suggested and using the world of Boku no Pico to deconstruct Yaoi by creating a more realistic depiction of a same-sex couple and the homophobia they come across. I've taken a lot of inspiration from Bokurano Hentai to deconstruct several tropes like If It's You, It's Okay by having the OC I paired Pico up with question his sexual identity throughout the story and showing the consequences of what happened throughout the original. I already read the Writea Good Yaoi post ,but I'm interested in knowing what you guys think. Any tropes I might want to deconstruct?

edited 26th Mar '16 10:33:26 AM by Sakubara

Talk to gay men. Seriously. The biggest gripe with Yaoi is how they follow some pretty unhealthy stereotypes regarding homosexual men.

No shit. :P

Seriously, there are yaoi that get it right, but they are very few and far between because getting it right isn't the point. And given that this is the way that a great number of folks engage with queerness in media, and in some cases one of the only ways, it's potentially worrying.

...interesting.

I gather from the way that you've worded your post that you're treating the events of the rather notorious OVA in question as child abuse, which is clever and certainly realistic but also very, very strange to me. Like, why that show? It's a bit like writing a pro-multiculturalism sequel to The Turner Diaries: I'm intrigued, but I'm even more intrigued as to how you got there in the first place.

But I digress. You do you.

Thanks for responding especially since with Chapter 4 now out I have writer's block (I have most of the story plan, though I'm just not sure on what to write next). Now to respond to you guys individually

To Xenovista29th: Luckily, one of my mom's coworkers (which thankfully is my school) is gay and even married. Problem is that I have no idea how to approach the conversation. Definitely, not "Hey do you wanna help me write a story based on something that involved child molestation that accidently implies All Gays Are Pedophiles?!"

Also, I actually plan on deconstructing the gay stereotypes too. For example, Pico's Camp Gay and still wears women's clothes and because of that recieves rather homophobic bullying especially from one of the OCs.

Either way, I'll think about it

To JHM: Why I chose Boku no Pico? I was so disturbed I wondered "what kind of ***ked up things would they be doing as adults?" thus this was born. I was also inspired by a manga called Bokura no Hentai which is eerily similar to Boku no Pico ,but more realistic....and actually good.

And to both of you, thank you for taking the time to read my post and responding

Do you have at least one straight male crossdresser?

Instead of a gay crossdresser, maybe have a gay whose clothes get constantly interpreted as 'feminine' and 'gay', even when it's (say) a t-shirt and jeans?

Sorry about the questions, I'm just curious about how the deconstruction works when there's a character who's both gay and a crossdresser.

edited 31st Mar '16 7:05:55 PM by hellomoto

Good idea,hellomoto. I'll consider it

Actually, I think I already have that character in the form of a homophobic Bishounen named Kenta. When we first meet him, Rei, the main character, describes him as a girly as it gets without being a trap. How about he dresses effeminately ,but casually. Besides, I'm planning on his homophobia being based on self-hatred.

You know what I should've done? Linked to the story for real-time feedback. I've also considered putting it in a separate thread.

Either way, if you guys actually want to read it, here you go:https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11857208/1/Pico-After-Summer

Probably gonna put this in a separate thread and link to it. Until then, I hope you enjoy

I have a question in this regard. How do I avoid that stupid cliche? "A character who has never shown any previous evidence of being gay comes out of the closet"

Show evidence of them being attracted to those of the same sex. The issue is the lack of evidence, so come up with some!

Having a Closet Key could help in displaying that evidence.

Don't use cliches that confuse 'gay' with 'feminine'. Being feminine is not evidence of being attracted to men.

edited 3rd Apr '16 8:35:03 PM by hellomoto

It's not really "stupid", tho it is pretty cliche at this point. That happens quite a lot in real life, so there's always going to be room for that narrative. However, if you want to avoid it, you can have it that the character suppresses his homosexual attractions to the point that he doesn't really recognize them; romantic attraction is separate from sexual attraction, and he might experience one without the other.

"That happens quite a lot in real life"

What makes you say that? I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this statement. How do we know there was no evidence, especially when said evidence is essentially personal (and often private) emotions?

What character are you talking about? If it's a minor character that we aren't really concerned about, and said character has not shown much evidence of being NOT attracted to the same sex, just go ahead and make that character gay.

Actually, do we really have to 'show evidence' that someone is gay, any more than we have to 'show' someone is straight? It's flip-flipping sexual orientation (establishing someone as straight, then trying to turn them gay) that's more troublesome and has to be explained reasonably.

Look at the Justified section of PlayingWith.Suddenly Sexuality:

• Bob isn't a big or central character, only appearing in a few episodes, so establishing his sexuality isn't relevant to the plot, which is why it was revealed quite late in the series.
• Bob came from a region/culture with a lot of homophobia. Fearing for his safety and the acceptance of his family and friends, decided to keep his love for Steve a secret by posing as completely straight. Alice is just The Beard.
• Bob only realised he was gay later on in life (after meeting Steve), as some people do.
• If Bob is bisexual, then he can love Alice happily without his other inclinations being plot-relevant until Steve appears.

edited 3rd Apr '16 9:03:54 PM by hellomoto

A surprising number of people don't realize they're gay or bi until they meet someone they have a homosexual attraction to; kind of a stupid sexy Flanders or well if it's you it's okay thing. That's played out, but it's real. I never said anything about "evidence", tho.

You will never have to STATE that a character is heterosexual because that's going to be most people's basic assumption anyway. So, you have to show it or (goddess forbid) tell it if the character is non-heterosexual.

A lot of people think being gay or bi means embodying some sort of stereotype, so they might not regard themselves as or identify as gay or bi.

If anyone wants to continue with my deconstruction thread, here: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=14600710920A35959200&page=1#1

I also have an announcement regarding the fan fic.

I can attest to this from personal experience. Attraction to someone of a gender that you previously did not know you were interested in can really blind-side you when you're young and inexperienced. It can also take years to understand that fact and come to terms with it.