Venezuela and the Chavez Legacy

Good link.

What a crook. The way he gets idealized by the hard-left in Britain really sickens me.

edited 16th Mar '13 12:55:56 PM by Achaemenid

Being rich is evil, its inhuman, inmoral, and curse the rich people!

-Chavez.

Yeah...

^^ Hardly limited to the UK, unfortunately. That, however, isn't this thread, so I'll just leave it at that.

I can't speak for other countries, but the left wing of my countries' politics puts him on a sickening pedestal.

Not mine! Of course, the U.S. of A. doesn't have much of a left left to speak of, but still. It probably helps that we were his Enemy No. 1. Hard to support the guy denouncing you.

This is why many on the 'left' liked him. After all, if someone stands against the evil imperialistic US they're obviously a good person. No I don't understand how anyone stupid enough to believe that line of logic could get into university, but there you go.

edited 16th Mar '13 5:09:49 PM by Silasw

Of course, mention the word "dictator" in Chile and get ready for a shitstorm.

That is probably because he is not a dictator. Really, people should stop attributing bad traits to people they don't like so they look bad. Most of time such stupid "tactic" is not even needed anyway. Bitching about Chavez being a "dictator" is missing the point about why he sucks.

Mainly because the guy was PRACTICALLY a dictator. The only thing separating him was that there was a sense of democracy left, that's it. He didn't need to appoint himself dictator, but he had the trappings of one.

Plus, on the Maduro debate earlier: Of course he will win, but that IS the point. What do you prefer, for Capriles to take hold of the shithole we are now, only to be taken down because of the unsatisfied populace, or for Maduro to suffer eventually the same fate?

Oddly enough, Venezuela is called "The most democratic country in the world" and Tibisay Lucena attacked the American democracy, because its exclusionary.

By that logic, then, If capriles win, Doomed, if Maduro win, Doomed, If Maria Bolivar win, Free bread for everyone, but Still Doomed!

edited 23rd Mar '13 8:25:54 PM by Tomodachi

...why is it called that and by whom?

By Chavez and his people. There an article in Aporrea, and news with the commander (?) saying so.

Its also the most happy country in the world. The most corrupt goverment in latinamerica. The place with more protests. The place with more deaths and criminality.

But, yeah, the most democratic country also.

Did you guys know im a atheist? But, I feel ofended by this: Chavez is being called the "Christ of the poor" and not only that, but there's people who actually think so. Let me give you a bit: (Warning: spanish, I will do my best to traslate)

A "rosario" with the image of Chavez◊ An image to pray on◊ The catholics do that, let's not discuss about that religion.

Some quotes, By Nicolas:

"If our commander Chavez has been called the Christ redeemer of the poor of America, then we are his Apostles"

"April 14, Sunday, its going to be resurection day, popular victory sunday, sunday for the Christ of the poor""

"We are going to become in the protector and redeemer of the poor, too"

"If there someone who have won the eternal life, that's Hugo Chavez"

"We know that out leader ascended to the skies and its in the front to Christ; he possibly influence the elecction of a sudamerican Pope.

"Chavez is a christ, he suffer for his people, was killed by an empire, died young, he have all the characteristics, he have all the requirements to be a Christ; Besides, he made miracles in life" (PDVSA)

"Chavez will rise like Jesus-Christ. -Mahmud Ahmadineyad

There's even someone who claims she was cured by Chavez Like a catholic Saint

Im deeply offended, to be honest, In fact, This reminds me so much of Twentieth Century Boys, and Chavez being Friend, except, Chavez identity isn't a mistery. Chavez did good stuff, but the guy was hardly a Saint.

edited 23rd Mar '13 11:05:19 PM by Tomodachi

I remember reading in Al Jazeera about a recently killed Mexican Neighbourhood Friendly Gangster drug baron who has a shrine created in his honor by the locals. He was a really nasty piece of work too. People worship the darndest things, even if it's expressly forbidden by the same religion as idolatry.

I would hope that some of the Chavez idols are just as much about making a fast buck and great kitsch value as they are for being unironically worshipped.

Canonizing Chavez makes the whole "killed by an empire" dig all the more important. After all, why would God just do in one of his favourite children with cancer? Nope, it had to be a villain, an insidious attack and a noble sacrifice. But the villain remaining Venezuela's most important trading partner is... kinda inconvenient to that narrative.

edited 24th Mar '13 6:01:10 AM by betaalpha

Gah.... ARRRGH. I'm Catholic, and... agh. That literally hurt my brain.

Chávez was the latest incarnation of the Caudillo myth, the charismatic populistic leader we all have known too well in Latin America. And about the worship? Hardly unsurprising coming from the same people who bought us calling Simón Bolívar holy father.

I wonder how Americans would react if US politicians started to call Jefferson or Washington the same.

The Founding Fathers are practically almost that in American culture.

They won't stop exalting him, they need to sell the idea that his legacy lives on in them if they want to keep at it.

While we're at it, a counter of how many times Maduro publicly mentions Chávez.

edited 25th Mar '13 4:54:47 PM by Stormtroper

Pretty sure associating American forefathers with religious icons will earn either the mockery or wrath of both sides.

Hahahahah oh I wish

Oh yes, I remember him from a Cracked article. My favorite bit of irony is having the oppressed masses in one painting being a white American guy in a suit. But we are honestly not all far off:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cuRBbyLR_s

Although the message behind them is silly, those are some damn fine paintings.

Commission him to do one of Chavez in a similar deity-level flattering Jesus-pose and get it on the Web. Then when folks start hanging the image in their homes and shrines in a totally unironic way, reveal to them the artist's name and history of drawing ultraconservative works.

Troll power to the max!

That artist is a true believer; do you think for a second he'd be willing to draw Chavez?

With horns, maybe.

I do dislike that Chávez is being treated like a martyr, but from what i read (it seems there is a venezuelan like me here) people are not exactly getting two things, Capriles is not really cool, he has sent death threats to cuban doctors on his area of rule (Miranda) and expelled them from the region, second capriles recently did a number of mistakes on live TV (i could mention them but meh) nearly after the president death was announced.

Second there are some stuff people are overlooking some of the good things he did, the number of universities he ordered to be made (thus increasing the people who could go and study and get an actual career) the number of Missions that have led us to have like 2% of people who cannot write or read, third some of those missions helped a LOT to improve health.

Third he was by far from the dictator some media makes him to be, really the guy suffered a coup, got quickly, and i meant it quickly replaced with a madman (Pedro Carmona Estanga who waved all the powers onto the charge of president, thus removing the national assembly giving himself the posibility of making laws imprompto with no restrains nothing to hold him back, ordered a man hunt of Cabello at the time) less to say he was quicly removed and Chávez was put on power again (he was set to be executed on sunrise).

Fourth Many of the politicians who fled the country were on the flip side criminals, Zuloaga confessed publically his crime and... fled the country "due to being chased for political reason" (like confessing you were boosting the inflation and setting up the coin for a devaluation was not bad, Carmona Estanga also fled the country (he was given house imprisionement instead of jail and a sentence of 30 years max penalty here and he flees to colombia saying he is being chased for political reasons...).

Fifth Chavez was way better than some of the guys that had ascended to power before him, my grandma came here on the 50's and more or less she took the full force of venezuelan dictatorships (lusinchi, caldera, peréz jiménez) so yeah Chavez was the best alternative versus having an other madmen.

Sixth speaking of which i am not sure if it was mentioned but he was put trough three referendums in an attempt to remove him from power, he won all three (least to say the other two were illegal, our constitution puts it plainly that one referendum type per government, he was forced to run by all three and won them)

Seventh on the protest end those are mostly made by minories that were very unhappy with him, on the other hand whenever he announced he was going to make an act huge numbers of people moved from everywhere on the country to assit, and at his funeral if numbers are to be believed at least a million people went to see his corpse.

Eigth crime rate is diminishing slowly but sureley, there were changes to the national police that helped on this aspect however crime and corruption are matters that are not easly dealt with much less in a period of 10 years.

That is all i wanted to say, i do disagree with some stuff like CADIVI or that the laws regarding sellers only apply to food and not electronics and allowing those people go scott free with inflating the electronics to points where i often wanted someting but i have to refrain and seek a cheaper and cheaper store due to them inflating the prices (something that should be 240 bolívares is sold by 500 bolívares or more), the current jail state is something i do not approve off, i'd rather have them reformed as panoptic prisions.