Law would forbid immigration to the UK for non-english speakers.

Source (it's daily mail, deal with it)

Foreigners who don't bother to learn the language shouldn't even be here. Spouse or no spouse. It's not their homeland, they should prove they deserve citizenship through bothering to learn the language. There are many social and economic problems resulting from linguistic "diversity". For instance, the school where 58 different languages are spoken. The kids can't understand each other. They can't understand the teacher. That is replicated on a larger social scale. The costs of having to translate into so many different languages puts an immense strain on government services. And to hell with the European human rights act, it is not fit for purpose.

There's a huge difference between "I live here and I can't be bothered to learn the language", and "You are not allowed to come here at all unless you already know the language, no matter how many or which members of your family are already here."

Let's not conflate the two just to start another thread to fight about immigration in.

edited 27th Jul '11 8:00:03 AM by Madrugada

Have a more accurate thread title:

"Being separated from our spouses because one of us can't speak English breaches our human rights."

"To hell with human rights"? What.

If the alternative is "fuck human rights" or "let the dirty immigrants stay", I'm going to let them use my shower for free so they can wash that dirt off.

Yes, learning English should be encouraged; no, it should not be a prerequisite (unless you intend to get into a school here, where you should have to learn English anyway). I, for one, am not an immigrant; yet, I am, for no reason besides crawling out of the right woman, deigned to be a citizen of Britain. Why? Should I not have to do the same test as the newcomers? Why do I enjoy a free ride compared to them?

Suffice to say, I agree with the immigrants in this case. This policy is discriminatory and thus should not be used. Inability to speak English =/= inability to want to learn English.

How despicably ignorant. The only reason any land is one's homeland is by an accident of birth. Those who choose a country instead of sticking to some tribal urge to live and die on the plot of soil they lay a claim to on the grounds that they were born there have my sympathy.

That being said, I do think learning a language should be a given, though it need not be immediate. However, in the case of denying someone's spouse the right to immigrate, their married status should certainly take precedence.

I think they should be able to show that they are trying to or intend to learn English (they can't really get a job otherwise), but if their loved ones are here they should be allowed in without already speaking it, as long as they intend to. And most will.

edited 27th Jul '11 8:20:26 AM by ArlaGrey

I was going to ask what the policies are on people who do not as yet speak English (or the official language of the country they wish to immigrate to), but will do so once they actually move there, but it seems I've been beaten to it.

It's probably worth noting that in certain parts of the world, access the means of learning English or similar can be very limited or expensive. Places like the US or UK have much more accessible resources for language skills (Though I am told they are chronically underfunded).

It makes complete sense to require immigrants to learn the language - but not in the case of marriage. The right to be with their spouse takes the first place, full stop.

However, why not require them to learn at least the basics of language in a certain timeframe from arrival?

I say learn Gaelic and teach the Sassenach a lesson.

It should be fully within the rights of a people to decide that they don't want immigrants, or that they don't want immigrants that don't speak the local language. If they want to decide to allow people in, then good, but it's out of kindness (or out of self-interest! Cheap labour is useful!), not because of "human rights".

This is silly. People have the right to be with their families.

Now, if they married someone with the explicit intention of using that to get into the country... put it this way; if you get divorced less than 6 months after coming to the country, I'm liable to raise my eyebrows. Similarly, if you come to the country and don't live in the same house as the person you are supposedly married to.

...other than that, banning them from the country is ridiculous.

To be honest, I'm not so fussed about 1st gen immigrants learning the language. (Its a horrible language for foreigners to learn anyway.) What must be mandatory is 2nd generation and beyond learning it as their 1st language... and thats why, actually, you do need the 1st generationers to learn it; how else will their kids learn it?

edited 27th Jul '11 8:39:48 AM by GameChainsaw

In all forms? Pay attention to the details in this case, the one inhabitant is a citizen. Do you have a right to separate a fellow citizen from their chosen spouse?

Yeah, worries about an abuse of the system is one thing, but that's better dealt with after as a reaction rather than before as a presumption.

Oh my, the idea that you have to have a job to contribute to society? That doesn't bode well for stay at home parents.

But note in this case, the man is 57, he could easily have a pension, retirement, or savings so as to not need a job. Is it really fair to keep him from his spouse just because you feel he can't contribute?

edited 27th Jul '11 8:45:23 AM by blueharp

Immigrants should learn the language. If they don't speak the language of the country they are in, how will they get a job? And if they don't have a job, how will they contribute to society? And if they don't contribute, why whould they be let in, when the country has enough problems as it is? We can't afford to let people in who aren't going to be useful.

A country is in no way obliged to accept citizens of other countries, and has a right to impose any laws on immigration that they please. Such pragmatic decisions are absolutely necessary, since immigration does present a huge problem in Western Europe, but separating people from their spouses is just bad.

And if you're dedicated to learning the language but don't have the resources before you emigrate, I can think of few faster and cost-effective ways than having your (hopefully) fluent spouse assist and coach you while you immerse yourself in the local language once you arrive. But that requires quite a bit of dedication and time. And much better if you take a language class once you get where your going as well - full immersion will definitely speed up the process, and the teacher is probably more likely to be native and a professional or at the very least extremely fluent and knowledgeable than if you were learning in your home country.

@Arla: You obviously do not realize how profitable employment of illegal immigrants who do not speak the language is.

edited 27th Jul '11 8:47:25 AM by kashchei

Any laws?

I think I'll decline to give them that much leeway.

Well, a state has moral responsibility only towards its legal citizens, while they are inside its borders. Everything outside of that is optional.

Not really, various international laws actually require large first nation countries to look after refugees or emirges to their countries. Also if the married person IS a citizen of their country then how are they in any way being fair?

It is in the interest of every state, much like of every individual, to cultivate amiable relations with its peers.

None at all? That goes a bit far.

A state has a degree of moral responsibility to all persons within its authority, to let it behave without it is to risk severe abuse and misconduct.

I'll pass on that idea too.

According to the UK Border Agency website quick guide:

You must show that:

• you are legally married to each other or have registered a civil partnership;
• you are going to live together permanently as husband and wife, or as civil partners;
• you have met each other;
• you can support yourselves and any dependants without help from public funds;
• you have adequate accommodation where you and your dependants can live exclusively and without help from public funds; and
• you are at least 21 years old (or 18 years old if you or your husband, wife or civil partner is a serving member of HM Forces).

If you want to live in the UK with your partner if they are British. The OP said they were married right? So they can live in the UK without requiring to learn English anyway.

edit:

That is for a probationary period of upto 27 months.

These are the requirements if you want citzenship ASAP

• you and your partner married or formed a civil partnership at least four years ago;
• you have spent those four years living together outside the UK;
• you are both coming to the UK to settle here together; and
• you have sufficient knowledge of the English language and life in the UK. (You do not need to meet this last requirement if you are aged 65 or over.)

So speaking English only speeds up the process.

Further edit:

The man, according to the UK border agency website, has the right to abode because he was a Commonwealth citzen on/before 31th of December 1982.

edited 27th Jul '11 9:00:27 AM by whaleofyournightmare

That info was very helpful. Cheers So in this case learning English will only be required if he wants to earn citizenship so he should still qualify to live here right?

I'd agree that it is important for immigrants to learn English if they choose to live in the UK by the simple fact that it is the language spoken by the vast majority and for the sake of communication we need to be able to understand each other. Though I'm not sure whether it should be a prerequisite for being allowed into the country, but would be important for them to join some kind of course after arriving. They should be allowed to continue speaking the language of their birth as well as English and there shouldn't be any problems them passing that down to their children so long as they teach them English as their primary language. What they speak in private or between each other isn't really anyone's business.

I agree with those who mention about 'accidents of birth' and that is the main reason why I'm for immigration. Because I just happened to be born in the UK to an English speaking family shouldn't make me any more special than anyone else, though sadly such thoughts just don't seem very practical in application.

edited 27th Jul '11 9:10:23 AM by PiccoloNo92

You're right, it's off-topic — Madrugada}

edited 27th Jul '11 9:32:14 AM by Madrugada

Because clearly, only Muslamic foreign heathens struggle with English (Protip: most don't).

edited 27th Jul '11 9:19:54 AM by TheBatPencil