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heartlessmushroom Space hobo Since: Jan, 2010
Space hobo
#1: Jul 25th 2011 at 6:33:27 AM

How do I avert or subvert the Principle Of Evil Marksmanship but without endangering my heroes too much?

MrAHR Ahr river from ಠ_ಠ Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Ahr river
TheEarthSheep Christmas Sheep from a Pasture hexagon Since: Sep, 2010
Christmas Sheep
#3: Jul 25th 2011 at 8:47:49 AM

Have them kill off Red Shirts?

Still Sheepin'
Moerin Since: Aug, 2010
#4: Jul 25th 2011 at 9:01:12 AM

Have them occasionally kill named characters. >.>

Either that or make the collatoral damage they cause immense. Even if they can't kill the heroes, the damage they do will be at least somewhat demoralizing.

KingZeal Since: Oct, 2009
#5: Jul 25th 2011 at 9:41:08 AM

You can know how actual firefight skirmishes work. More Dakka is usually the key to winning a skirmish, in addition to team maneuvers like flanking and flushing from cover (usually with explosives). It's not unheard of that people don't get shot when a lot of bullets are flying, but the general principle you want to aim for is that the gunfire is keeping the heroes pinned down, immobile, or at bay. Also, make sure you involve lots of cover with actual bulletproof material. (Wood, for example, is NOT bulletproof.)

Dealan Since: Feb, 2010
#6: Jul 25th 2011 at 11:22:01 AM

Have the heroes be smart enough to avoid situations where they are hopelessly outnumbered. Or better yet, have the heroes be greater in numbers than the Mooks sometimes, so that the latter can demonstrate how competent they are.

Night The future of warfare in UC. from Jaburo Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
The future of warfare in UC.
#7: Jul 25th 2011 at 11:27:08 AM

Distance, cover, concealment. Depending on what's actually going on in the story there are also limits (though not ones that can be reached without technical assistance or superpowers) on what a human without technical assistance can be reasonably expected to hit.

Nous restons ici.
Wolf1066 Crazy Kiwi from New Zealand (Veteran) Relationship Status: Dancing with myself
Crazy Kiwi
#8: Jul 28th 2011 at 3:40:09 AM

1) Show the mooks being very effective in taking out someone unimportant to your plot.

2) Have your heroes behaving as if they expect the mooks to be effective (i.e. using hard cover, concealment and otherwise taking care not to make themselves an easy target - strategy, planning etc).

If the heroes are not aware of the scene in which the mooks efficiently wipe out someone else, it also has the benefit of making the heroes look intelligent for assuming that their enemies are at least competent and pose a real threat (unlike the average hero who comes across as a moron with no self-preservation instincts who's just fortunate that the baddies couldn't hit a barn if they were firing inside the barn)

MajorTom Since: Dec, 2009
#9: Jul 28th 2011 at 4:39:34 AM

  1. Fire and maneuver skills: If in a military setting (unless this is horribly dated in the past then bad tactics but high threat is allowable) have the Mooks actually act like soldiers. I do this the occasional Banzai charge notwithstanding. (And since I have POV shifts to the other side in my work, this works out since it helps show that both sides are Not So Different.)
  2. Be a team player: Have them coordinate amongst themselves. Have them COMMUNICATE. If one of theirs gets hit have another Mook drag him back or fire to cover his/her retreat. Stuff like that.
  3. Marksmanship need not be Improbable Aiming Skills: In real world battle even the best soldiers have a hard time even reaching 25% accuracy. Rarely do you have someone with unmissable aim. (Usually they are very experienced and very trained snipers/marksmen.) This applies to both heroes and Mooks.
  4. Make Armor Not Useless: If the setting has armor let it be seen from time to time at the very least that it actually protects.

annebeeche watching down on us from by the long tidal river Since: Nov, 2010
watching down on us
#10: Jul 28th 2011 at 4:57:35 AM

Have people actually get hurt regularly with injuries that don't mysteriously disappear after the battle or episode; shave down minor characters.

Seriously, don't be afraid to kill known characters off after they've served their purposes in whatever plot they're involved in.

Last of all, don't call them Mooks. Call them what they actually are, be they soldiers, warriors, etc.

edited 28th Jul '11 5:00:17 AM by annebeeche

Banned entirely for telling FE that he was being rude and not contributing to the discussion. I shall watch down from the goon heavens.
BobbyG vigilantly taxonomish from England Since: Jan, 2001
vigilantly taxonomish
#11: Jul 28th 2011 at 5:04:37 AM

Seriously, don't be afraid to kill known characters off after they've served their purposes in whatever plot they're involved in.

Won't this drastically affect the other characters in most instances, changing the plot significantly as a result?

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annebeeche watching down on us from by the long tidal river Since: Nov, 2010
watching down on us
#12: Jul 28th 2011 at 5:08:40 AM

Depends on the characters.

That and there's nothing wrong with changing and complicating the plot, even significantly unless it goes directly against your aims in writing this story. I've had better and more interesting plots for it.

edited 28th Jul '11 5:09:36 AM by annebeeche

Banned entirely for telling FE that he was being rude and not contributing to the discussion. I shall watch down from the goon heavens.
SpacemanStrife Since: Mar, 2010
#13: Jul 28th 2011 at 5:09:28 AM

If you story verse has any form of Deflector Shields, have the heroes equip themselves with extremely strong shielding that can absorb a lot of firepower. This way, you can give your Mooks a repuation as lethal killing machines and make them live up to that name, but the heroes' superior defenses allows them to take cover and escape more easily than others before them.

That being said, I really like the idea of making the heroes deal with Mooks intelligently, and/or making them miss just as often as the Mooks. ^_^

I gotta wonder... How can you achieve the same effect in an action-based Video Game? Sure, you could give the player a generous amount of health so that they can just tank their way through, but that can get pretty silly if you're not playing as a heavily armored soldier. xD Deadly Dodging and Bullet Time are slightly more plausible, probably.

CyganAngel Away on the wind~ from Arcadia Since: Oct, 2010
Away on the wind~
#14: Jul 28th 2011 at 5:26:33 AM

In an action-based mini-game?

Deflection of bullets, armour, or speed enough to confuse the Mook's accuracy.

There are too many toasters in my chimney!
doorhandle Gork Side 4 Life from Space Australia! Since: Oct, 2010
#15: Jul 28th 2011 at 5:43:39 AM

With the force field solution. Except maybe more towards Made of Iron and Nigh Invunrablity.

You don't have to harm the hero to make mooks effective. have them achive a major objective even with the hero's influence.

Alternately, have them work smarter, not harder. Make them like Tucker's kobolds.

alethiophile Shadowed Philosopher from Ëa Since: Nov, 2009
Shadowed Philosopher
#16: Jul 28th 2011 at 6:33:30 PM

If you can't have a gunshot wound kill someone, let it maim them. Add in some (relatively) minor bullet wounds. Make sure said wounds actually affect the wounded later.

Shinigan (Naruto fanfic)
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