What defines an RPG as "Eastern" or "Western" anyway?

The Gothic series has a lot of similarites with Eastern RP Gs when it comes to the plot, storyline and structure, but is still unambigously Western (German). Really, there are no well-defined borders between the "genres", simply tendencies.

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Eastern RP Gs are more linear. They contain little to no story branching and are more like adventure games. Same goes for the imitations made in the West, like Anachronox. Western RP Gs are more "branched", often contain some kind of "morality meter" and more elaborate sidequests - for example, look at Fallout New Vegas: you have 20 main quests (branching into three storylines, so you don't complete all of them in one playthrough), but a crapload of sidequests.

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Knicknacks: As has been said, every rule has exceptions. You could say, for example, "All dogs are loyal to their masters" and be completely right, even though a few dogs might not be, since they'e an exception, rather than the rule. Those games you mentioned? Singular exceptions in a sea of games that follow the rule to the letter. Their simply existing doesn't mean the rule isn't true, it just means they defy the rule.

Also: The fact that you sigged me made me happier than it probably should have.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."

Welp, WRP Gs branched off from Ultima, while JRP Gs branched off from Dragon Quest... which branched off from Ultima.

^ Yeah, everything eventually branch off from Ultima, which will eventually trace its root back to D&D...

Give me cute or give me...something?

Is there any game which you would classify as a modern(to exclude the old gold box or betrayal at krondor) western RPG that has different modes for combat and non-combat?, Does the UI and/or controls change between walking around and fighting? I know some old WRPG's do and a lot of ERPG's do, but I can think of any modern WRPG that does this.

In the quiet of the night, the Neocount of Merentha mused: How long does evolution take, among the damned?

Does Mount And Blade count?

Give me cute or give me...something?

I don't know since I haven't played it, make a case for why it should*

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In the quiet of the night, the Neocount of Merentha mused: How long does evolution take, among the damned?

Outside of combat you move your army around on an overworld, while for battles you control your commander directly from a third-person view.

As for it being an RPG, it's more of a battle simulator, but it has stats, leveling, a party, quests and other RPG elements, so sure, why not.

edited 13th Jul '11 5:10:21 AM by Talby

Eastern RP Gs copy Dragon Quest. Western RP Gs copy King's Quest. Two totally different quests.

EDIT: Aw somebody beat me to it.

edited 13th Jul '11 5:33:06 AM by accaris

Hmm, yeah it would count. I just got the thought since all of the WRP Gs I've played has the same UI/controls for the combat and exploration, and than maybe add a world map for moving between cities, while a lot of ERP Gs have exploration in one mode and when you enter combat(random or fixed) you enter a combat mode.

Edit : Kings Quest is an adventure game not an RPG.

edited 13th Jul '11 5:40:59 AM by mahel042

In the quiet of the night, the Neocount of Merentha mused: How long does evolution take, among the damned?

From a purely technical standpoint, Eastern RP Gs have a tendency to raise stats by either random chance or in a defined fashion for each level up. Western RP Gs on the other hand prefer either allowing the player to allocate stats themselves or training specific stats.

I realize there are exceptions, but I'm trying to differentiate the two while sticking to facets of gameplay and avoiding things that don't define a game genre like plot and characterization.

edited 13th Jul '11 5:49:59 AM by hnd03

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Folks really are going out of their way to make this as complicated as they possible can, aren't they...

Except [condescending response follows]. Because [sarcasm here]. You do understand [snark], right? POTHOLE TO SARCASM MODE

One distinction between JRP Gs and WRP Gs is where the player stands in relation to the story. In JRP Gs the player controls a pre-defined character with a pre-defined role in the story. In WRP Gs the player is the character he/she controls, their avatar's class, skills, personality, appearance, and role in the story is up to the player.

Furthermore, there is the questions of influences. While if you go back far enough both of them owe their existence to Ultima and D&D. But WRP Gs stuck closer to those roots than others (hell many earlier ones outright used the D&D system even when they weren't D&D games.) While JRP Gs diverged into their own thing around the SNES era.

It would be great if that was the only distinction, but unfortunately it's not.

edited 13th Jul '11 6:29:33 AM by Neo_Crimson

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I would say, don't think two categories. Think instead of a spectrum. Games like Anachronox and Planescape don't break the definitions. They just happen to exist at unusual places on the spectrum, rather than at the well-filled segments near the extreme ends.

Anyway, while there are obviously many elements at work, I'd say the most important qualifiers are how the story is designed. In a "JRPG", the story is largely or entirely linear, with premade characters; the emphasis is on a single story, with the character development and plot twists that a set of known, fixed characters allow. In a "WRPG", the story is largely non-linear, with characters the player designs; the emphasis is on player choice defining the course of the story through their choices at chargen and during play.

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I think the problem isn't the definitions themselves, but the terms the definitions are connected to: Japanese Role Playing Game and Western Role Playing Game. Linear Role Playing Game and Divirgent Role Playing Game would work much better, in my opinion.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."

sounds a bit more fairer

there are exceptions to wrpgs and jpgs so this sounds more neutral

This level of trolling is reasonable for Commander Obvious. What do you think of this, everyone?

I have no idea of such a cocnept anyway.

Again, that's not a rule. Like I already mentioned, there's Gothic, a series of German RP Gs. You play as The Nameless Hero who, although you are free to choose from dialogue options, has a predefined, distinguishable personality, as well as his group of closest buddies and most other NP Cs. The games are plot-driven, though there are several major plot paths you can choose from close to the beginning, as well as some minor sidequest dilemmas, but the major pathings ultimately get to the same point. It's made in the West, and wasn't meant to copy the Eastern formula, but the story technique is closer to the Eastern approach. There are no clearly defined borders between the two schools, it's only that both Western and Eastern developers prefer some techniques above others, but it's not a rule that they have to use them.

edited 13th Jul '11 7:10:26 AM by MilosStefanovic

The sin of silence when they should protest makes cowards of men.

	ERPGs	WRPGs
Focus	Story. A reviewer might praise an Eastern RPG for having "a deep story with realistic characters and a great ending", but criticize it for being "the same as last year's game" or having "boring, predictable combat".	Gameplay. While the story is still important, Western RPGs often try to be innovative and fun, often incorporating some sort of "morality" system or using a unique combat system. A reviewer might praise a Western RPG for being a "deep, complex RPG experience with tons of replay value" but criticize it for "having bland, stereotypical characters and a confusing ending".
Gameplay	You and your party travel the world, often acquiring new modes of transport to do so. Towns are usually highly detailed, with the space between them being relatively empty, aside from the occasional scenery or treasure chest. Expect third-person, with a fixed camera, and an overworld map from which you enter turn-based combat upon making contact with an enemy.	You travel across the game area, with or without a party of NPCs. Towns are usually little more than collections of NPCs: one for quest-giving, one as a shop, one to heal you. The landscape between these safe areas is detailed in comparison to an Eastern RPG, though no less interactive. Where an ERPG might have a dungeon, a WRPG might have a large-scale battle. Expect either first-person or over-the-shoulder third-person. Combat is generally not turn-based.
Story	Your character begins as a normal person, perhaps gifted with some combat ability. Within the first hour of gameplay, you become aware of an evil presence and are compelled to fight it, either for moral reasons or because a family member has been kidnapped. Over the course of the story, you meet other characters with different motives and a similar cause. Each has a different style of combat, and you each end up supporting each other once the party is complete. You fight a number of major enemies, usually servants of the villain, each time opening a path to a new area in some way. Eventually you kill the villain, but not before they either reveal a major plot twist or make you doubt the morality of your actions.	Your character, depending on the setting, is either an escaped prisoner, a military officer or royalty. No other information is given, as you yourself are supposed to be playing the role. The game often begins in medias res, or the basic details are given in the opening. Either way, you are aware of your goal. Depending on the game, you may travel alone or with a team. In the case of the former, you walk the earth alone, unraveling the mystery of your quest. In the case of the latter, you and your team travel to specific locations to achieve objectives, eventually revealing the villain's identity and how to defeat him. You return to the 'hub' often, as it allows access to each of the areas you have visited.

The thing about trying to create blanket rules for each 'type' is that for a long time the newest games on each side have been selling themselves on what they change from their predecessors, such as 'an innovative new combat system' or 'randomly generated sidequests'.

Sometimes one side takes a standard feature from the other and touts it as 'a groundbreaking development'- such as a JRPG introducing extensive customization or a WRPG introducing cinematic combat- which it is in a way, since it's the first time the local audience has seen it.

edited 13th Jul '11 8:04:12 AM by Recon5

WRP Gs are mostly innovative and take after Tolkien.

JRP Gs are mostly tedious and take after whatever the latest bastardization of Norse mythology they could come up with.

Yeah, this thread is going to go on for a long time. I know, but the question was already answered on the first page.

Where it was made.

Sonic Brotherhood is a Western RPG, Custom Robo is an Eastern one. Design philosophies tend to be different in different countries, but nothing is set in stone. If you want specific categories for play styles those exist too and should not be confused with the Eastern-Western Divide, even though they are, Japanophiles and Japhaters being what they are.

edited 13th Jul '11 8:15:12 AM by Cider

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There are no hard and fast rules as to what makes a WRPG and a JRPG what they are. They just each have their own set of tropes and cliches that often overlap and borrow from each other and attempting to create a rigid classification system is an exercise in futility. Id also suggest stickying and maybe locking this thread so we dont get another one.

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I don't understand why people still make these threads from time to time.

You have the articles for Eastern RPG and Western RPG. They explain all there is to know about the criteria a game needs to fill in order to fall into one of these genres or in between full well, and there's absolutely no need in making forum patrons waste their time by reiterating the same things these articles say post after post.

I seriously hope Angry Scientist C&P'ed all that, because...

edited 13th Jul '11 10:41:50 AM by Litis