The growing problem of inscrutable titles and text

I don't think I even heard of a "lesbian genre" in Western porn, only "warnings" of "lesbian content".

Right, can anyone name any non-pornographic western work, focused on lesbians, aimed at straight males? Or any aimed at straight women? Not saying people in those groups don't read/watch them, but they are entirely peripheral, unlike with Yuri, which is aimed, explicitly, at males and females.

The only western example I know if, at all, is The L Word, and I have seen less than an one entire episode of that.

Well, I had seen a gay romance shelf at a bookstore, but it all looked like normal western romance fare. Yuri, on the other hand...

We should call another expert of the Yuri genre in.

edited 30th Jun '11 5:41:20 PM by chihuahua0

Fear Effect Maybe? It was certainly marketed◊ that way◊ (NSFW)

Good example. Actually, I somehow thought it was a Japanese production.

With the Animesque well everything its not hard. (its one of those that its a carbon clone of an anime top to bottom.)

edited 30th Jun '11 6:02:38 PM by Raso

The L Word is aimed at straight males. That's the first one that comes to mind, but I know there are others. Most Western works that centre around Lesbians are aimed at straight men or straight women. Only a few indie works are aimed at lesbians. It's really rare in Western works. The two genres have the same demographics. Why? Because that's who consumes most media.

The demographics that they are marketed to is something that Girls' Love has IN COMMON with Western Lesbian Romance. It's not a difference. It's another similarity.

edited 30th Jun '11 6:19:23 PM by shimaspawn

Reading that series page things seem really really different than a Yuri Genre work like top to bottom different. And are you sure that was the demographic? It doesn't actually look like it.

Yes, I'm sure that was the demographic.

I would like for there to be concrete boundaries between the genres like there are with Boys' Love, Bara and Western Gay Media. I'm just not entirely certain there are. The only things I've found haven't been limited to Girls' Love as a genre but are common in all Japanese media. Oh, and I've read through about thirty proclaimed Yuri series in the past two days. No lilies whatsoever.

edited 30th Jun '11 7:03:29 PM by shimaspawn

What about Sarah Waters?

And it's a redlink.

edited 30th Jun '11 7:07:30 PM by EnglishIvy

I'd ask appropriate people about delineations... except I think the appropriate people would be lesbians and bisexual women, and there's no way a heterosexual male can ask those questions of a lesbian/bisexual woman and not come off as a creep unless he was thisclose a friend... and I don't have any such friends.

The most I know on the subject is that I've been told point blank that the kind of porn that a lesbian would be into is completely different than what I'd be into, but I've yet to be illustrated on how. If I did ever learn that, I probably could answer what the difference between Girls Love, Yuri, and Western Lesbian Media might be.

I don't care about this discussion in the slightest for the most part, but perhaps rather than pointing fingers it would be more pertinent to try to solve the problem?

Just a thought. Instead of saying "it's the mod's fault" "it's the anime fans' fault" ad infinitum.

The main problem that there seems to be a failure in communication.

For example, my suggestion to have Fast Eddie list all his points with a bullet list still stands.

I think the fact that he isn't listing them means he doesn't care and isn't going to change it. It's how I've looked at it for days now. Now, if I'm wrong, he'll prove that and whatever happens happens.

Regardless, the Lesbian Romance is current in YKTTW, so let's see what happens there. Yuri Genre could be a subtrope. I think that works perfectly fine. And is the best solution right now.

Edit: The YKTTW is here.

The description could use a good deal of work, and I will try to add more western works from the Yuri Genre list as I have time later today.

edited 1st Jul '11 7:38:52 AM by Meeble

eh, ok how about this? Could someone please summarize, as simply as possible, lesbian romance and the yuri genre so perhaps to illuminate some discernible difference between the two. Cause right now, I aint seeing it. It just seems like a difference in terminology.

The only difference that I'm aware of (aside from the presence of standard Japanese cultural influences, which is technically the only difference between Anime and Animation in general) is whether the work is officially published as "Yuri", which limits Yuri Genre to works originally published in Japan, as well as some OEL manga that American publishers may have co-opted the term for.

By this distinction, all Yuri works are Lesbian Romance, though not all Lesbian Romance works are Yuri. Indexing Yuri Genre under the Lesbian Romance YKTTW will preserve that distinction.

edited 1st Jul '11 9:23:10 AM by Meeble

So basically we would have (from supertrope to it's subtropes):

Romance -> Queer Romance -> Lesbian Romance -> Yuri Genre

That's a crazy amount of duplication.

edited 1st Jul '11 9:31:26 AM by CBanana

Another way to put it: Yuri is aimed at both men and women, other works with Lesbian romance in them tend to be aimed at straight males.

So basically it's just terminology.

edited 1st Jul '11 9:31:43 AM by captainpat

No, there's Western Lesbian Romance aimed at straight women too. It just tends to be heavier on the romance but with little or no sex. More "Romantic" Two-Girl Friendship. Imagine Me And You would be a good example of this. It even has lily motifs.

Yes, it's basically terminology and bubbles.

edited 1st Jul '11 9:45:43 AM by shimaspawn

@C Bannana: Actually, I wasn't previously aware that Queer Romance exists. Thanks for pointing that out!

In that case, we probably could just discard the Lesbian Romance YKTTW, and instead move Western works from Yuri Genre to Queer Romance.

edit: In fact, many of the western examples on Yuri Genre are duplicated on Queer Romance already. So all that needs to be done is move the ones that are missing, and remove them from Yuri Genre.

edited 1st Jul '11 9:56:34 AM by Meeble

We should probably leave them there as it's easy enough to filter between the Japanese examples and the non-Japanese examples anyways so it's basically up to the reader's preference.

I went ahead and discarded the Lesbian Romance YKTTW. I have it saved on notepad in case it's ever needed in the future.

We have too many forums. Stuff gets put in places you can't find it.

Anyway, did anyone finish moving the non-Japanese examples under Girls' Love to Queer Romance?