Why aren't there any games in the Dark Ages?

I'd like to see something around the fall of the Western Roman Empire. I want something with the Huns and the Germanic migration period.

Or anything set in the Early Middle Ages.

I'd be interested in seeing something along the lines of Lionheart Legacy Of The Crusader's approach to alternate histories set in that time.

Not that there wasn't heaps to explore. Too much. I've got an exam on it tomorrow.

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> the joints are extremely well-designed.

As well as extremely exploitable. Say hello to prongs.

   I will consume not only your flesh, but your very soul.   

That's really up to the skill of the combatants. Where a maille-armoured warrior can be pierced anywhere with effort, a plated-armoured warrior is immune to most damage almost everywhere.

It's much easier only having to protect a few small target zones than any strike that could come your way.

On another topic, I'd love to see a game about the fall of Ancient Rome from the perspective of the Germanic tribes.

Swordsman Troper — Reclaiming The Blade — Watch

The fact that Dark Ages might not have happened may contribute to this.

Failing that, try 'Medieval Total War: The Viking Invasion'.

'All he needs is for somebody to throw handgrenades at him for the rest of his life...'

Because it's really difficult to sell a realistic Dark Ages Migration Period or Viking Age. Everybody just wants axes and horned helms.

EDIT: Seriously, Dark Ages is an outdated term used by the historians of the past, and it is rather vague as to what it refers, and has negative connotations. I suggest using terms such as Migration Period (referring mostly to the era of Germanic expansions across Europe, which includes the settlement of Anglo-Saxon England) and Viking Age (which didn't happen until later, and is a second Germanic expansion coming exclusively from Scandinavia), even if they are a bit Germanocentric.

edited 23rd Jun '11 10:35:44 AM by annebeeche

Banned entirely for telling FE that he was being rude and not contributing to the discussion. I shall watch down from the goon heavens.

Well, there were a lot of axes during that period. Cheaper than swords.

And shield walls. Most people might find standing behind a shield wall boring.

Shield walls are cool what are you talking about

Honestly, I think an historically authentic game based on Norse myth (you have Thor as your player character, say) would be damn thumpin' cool. Niu Heimar makes for a great overworld map due to being, well, nine separate worlds.

Axes may be cheaper, but they were not as commonly applied by the vikings as pop culture will have you think, and in fact the most commonly used weapon of the vikings was actually the spear. Axes were more like a secondary weapon you had on your belt in case you needed it.

edited 23rd Jun '11 10:38:22 AM by annebeeche

Banned entirely for telling FE that he was being rude and not contributing to the discussion. I shall watch down from the goon heavens.

I think shield walls are cool. But what about other people?

And yes, spears were used too.

edited 23rd Jun '11 10:46:53 AM by SilentColossus

But skalborgs are awesome.

edited 23rd Jun '11 10:48:18 AM by rmctagg09

Eating a Vanilluxe will give you frostbite.

> it is rather vague as to what it refers, and has negative connotations.

More like, it has been made to give an era negative connotations in the first place.

Humans are often like that. They search for proofs that they are better than their elders. It is always a popular pastime to look at those uncivilized vandals of the past and laugh.
The entire Medieval has been chosen as a target of defacement. Especially the Early Medieval, on the grounds that there isn't really that much literature of that particular timepiece. Evil time of inquisition, stupidity, and absolutely nothing good happening.

No matter the fact that it was actually not that bad from scientific POV, and rational thought was pretty high valued in philosophy. No matter the witch hunting inquisition is Reinassance, not Dark Ages. No matter the elaborate torture devices were mostly intentionally made up for defacing purposes.

Ever seen that Dark Ages of Christianity fauxmotivational with the exponential curve? Ofc you all did. See, people believe in this bullshit.

Ergo, no games in that time piece, barring Total War. Reality Is Unrealistic, people wouldn't believe that.

edited 23rd Jun '11 1:30:51 PM by Aminatep

   I will consume not only your flesh, but your very soul.   

Heresy laws were actually pretty lenient, from what I understand. The Church understood that it couldn't control or inform the entirety of Europe, and so when Heresy was discovered they chose rather to educate than condem. There were a fair ammount of atheists, women could inherit, detailed records were kept — indeed the earliest records we have about pesantry/serfs come from the early medieval period, from Church records.

Religious beliefs were fascinating too: there was a branch of Christianity (whose name I forget) that believed in two gods, the god of the difficult Physical universe, and the God that ruled the City Of God, the afterlife, which distorted into God and the devil, though its fingerprints could still be seen on religious practice as late as the 11th century. Which amusingly enough led to the Church trying to achieve political power by separating itself from secular authority, as doctrinal need necessitated a need to move away from the influences of the physical world, which was corruptive to the religious needs of the Church. It's also one of the reasons that Monastaries had walls. The other reason, of course, being Vikings.

Argh! Study more! Study more! T-Minus 3 hours until exam! Arrgh!

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> Religious beliefs were fascinating too: there was a branch of Christianity (whose name I forget) that believed in two gods

You are referring to either Qatari or Albigoians. Gnostic Christianity. Shame they killed the Pope's ambassador.

I've published an article on early crusades.

---

It's dangerous to go alone. Take this!

edited 23rd Jun '11 2:00:33 PM by Aminatep

   I will consume not only your flesh, but your very soul.   

Viking Battle For Asgard, is exactly what it says on the tin, and is thus, Early Medieval.

The amusing thing is, all Lord Of The Rings games should probably fall under this. Given Tolkien's area of expertise and the description of the settings from the books.

I would like to see a game set in/inspired by the Migration Period/Early Middle Ages. Most settings go for the Late Middle Ages for inspiration.

edited 23rd Jun '11 5:29:56 PM by Wagrid

I have a podcast! I think that you should listen to it.

There's King Arthur: The Role-Playing Wargame, and other Arthur-derived entertainment units, but they tend to be set in Ye Olde Middle Ages, far more concerned with the depiction of seelie, selkies and talking trees than with historical accuracy. King Arthur cheerfully places plate armor on the battlefield, on the not unreasonable basis that it already has dragons.

I was going to suggest Crusader Kings, but it kicks off with the Battle of Hastings. This makes the Roman Empire and the Early Middle Ages the only parts of the last 2500 years that Paradox games don't cover.

edited 26th Jun '11 9:42:13 AM by Kizor

It does cover the Roman Republic, and the first emperors reign.

The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.

I would like a dark age game too, but with the current idiotic trend in video games (Hunted the demons forge anybody?[1]) I'm guessing they'll flanderize it with RPG elements and a crappy hack and slash gameplay.

The Blood God's design consultant.

All that the "Dark Ages" really were, were times when people got a bit illiterate for a few hundred years and decided that building castles was more worthwhile.

Well, one problem with a Early Medieval game is that the surrounding periods were simply more interesting, and well, bigger. You've got the glory, war, and politicking of Rome and the crusades, chivalry, and the horde of feudal lords of the High Middle Ages, as opposed to the impoverished, isolated, and just plain smaller dark ages.

What's the frequency Kenneth?|In case of war.

But it wasn't always smaller. Look at Charlamagne! Look at the batles between the Byzantines and the Seljuk Turks! The Islamic conquests of North Africa and Spain! The Viking Invasions!

The Dark Ages were awesome!

edited 26th Jun '11 12:34:54 PM by GameChainsaw

The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.

Yes, it was, but the other 2 were even moreso. Though there is a severe lack of Matter videogames.

What's the frequency Kenneth?|In case of war.

The Dark Ages would be a fantastic setting to stage something like an action-horror in.

Swordsman Troper — Reclaiming The Blade — Watch

If they ever make a game like this, I'd hope there'd be Deliberate Values Dissonance, rather than giving the characters modern values.

[quoteblock]I'd like to see something around the fall of the Western Roman Empire. I want something with the Huns and the Germanic migration period.[/quoteblock]

I think you're in luck. Rome: Total War has a "Barbarian Invasion" expansion that's set in the fourth century AD, and there's a ridiculous mod for Civilization III that reaches to Western Rome's end.

I wish I could tell you about their quality. Expansions are often crummy, but on the other hand, some are wondrously elaborate. (See: Tales of the Sword Coast, Throne of Bhaal.) I got Barbarian Invasion in a package deal, and it seemed well-made when I checked it out, but I wasn't out to play a full campaign. I stopped when it made a dig at the New Testament that just seemed gratuitous. (Looking back on it, it was just the series being Grimdark again. Medieval: Total War states that people who claimed the Earth was round before the 1490s were burnt at the stake. Uh huh.)

Well, I'd say that until the Carolingian Renaissance (earliest, if not even until the Crusades...) ages were pretty damn dark.

Church morality laws in general were relatively lax in the Dark Ages early middle ages, especially since as you said the church simply wasn't as much of a power factor yet. That only came about due to the religious renewal in the 12th century.

Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 Fanfic