Ooo...that will need some fixing.
I see the Awesomeness.
Support change.
Fight smart, not fair.
Title? What Title?
You're over-thinking the trope. It's "A character being reported dead when he's not". Which makes all those "ambiguous" examples perfectly applicable.
Being in a Japanese-produced work is not enough of a difference to warrant its own trope.
By that definition, everything fits. Both the stock phrase, and the complications.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Dragon Writer
@Worldmaker: Then the current description doesn't support that and needs rewriting badly. All of the ramifications can be shoved under Legally Dead or something....
An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.
Title? What Title?
Sorry, I disagree. The current description works perfectly fine in my opinion, and is clever enough to be interesting. And the name is fine, too. I understood what this was about the moment I saw the title.
edited 7th Apr '11 4:28:37 AM by Worldmaker
Being in a Japanese-produced work is not enough of a difference to warrant its own trope.
Dragon Writer
No, it doesn't. The description explicitly introduces itself as all the kinds of problems that might ensue if a person is declared dead but not. The majority of wicks do not reflect this, that makes it misuse, whether due to a bad name or bad definition, but still misuse.
edited 7th Apr '11 9:14:27 AM by Stratadrake
An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.
Yeah, almost the entire article is on the ramifications, rather than the actual dead-faking. It reads like it might make a good second paragraph if the first paragraph were expanded.
edited 7th Apr '11 9:50:59 AM by INUH
Infinite Tree: an experimental story
Looks like it needs a rewrite.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Title? What Title?
My Lord, people, you're reading too much into it. There are a lot of tropes that can be boiled down to "This trope is X situation, and these are the ramifications." Why is this one causing you so much heartburn?
edited 7th Apr '11 4:46:35 PM by Worldmaker
Being in a Japanese-produced work is not enough of a difference to warrant its own trope.
The first sentence reads, "When a character who is alive and well has been declared legally dead." Normally, this is treated as definitive, no problem.
The problem is that the second paragraph can exist without the first, and seemingly doesn't acknowledge its existence (that is, doesn't flow naturally from it). It begins, "Faking The Dead is all fine and dandy, but what happens when it goes so far that you're declared legally dead?" Which could be the start of the article just as easily, and can be construed as also being definitive of the trope.
I don't think we need to expand the first paragraph, I think we need to rewrite the second.
And it was, in fact, Worldmaker who did so.
I'd say he was trying to redefine the trope to "win" the argument and stop any renaming, but he really does seem to think that this trope is about what he thinks it's about.
Well, in that case, the argument that the trope didn't have problems is based on a lie. No other way to put it.
Infinite Tree: an experimental story
Dragon Writer
If the focus of this trope is about characters being declared Legally Dead and the ramifications thereof, then that belongs under Legally Dead.
If this trope is about the Stock Phrase used to satire mistaken declarations/presumptions of death, that's fine — it can be related to I Got Better, no massive cleanup required, but the description needs to be rebuilt from the ground up to reflect this.
An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.
Title? What Title?
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
It wasn't about winning. It was about tossing a bone to the pedantic nitpickery who somehow didn't understand the point of the trope. A simplification of the trope into a single sentence to assist those in the studio audience who didn't get the joke, as it were.
And I know what the trope is about. I started the YKTTW, and wrote the paragraph that seems to be giving you so much heartburn, so I ought to know.
edited 7th Apr '11 9:51:50 PM by Worldmaker
Being in a Japanese-produced work is not enough of a difference to warrant its own trope.
For what it's worth, here's
the YKTTW. (Don't get too caught up in the OP being attributed to Jack Butler; this may have been from the era when editing a post changed its attribution.) It looks like people might not have gotten confused by the description because it originally had a more Exactly What It Says on the Tin title (not that I'm necessarily supporting a rename).
Title? What Title?
The description was edited for a couple of typos, but the basic content and the name have been constant. That's the name I used when I came up with the thing. Amazingly enough, everyone who participated in the YKTTW never were confused by what it meant. Funny that.
Being in a Japanese-produced work is not enough of a difference to warrant its own trope.
The Other Troper
Being rude and condescending just because we are confuses now will likely make us less inclined to listen. Make your points nicely and clearly.
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
Dragon Writer
What I notice in your YKTTW, Worldmaker, is that nobody discussed your description writeup at all — good or bad. All they did was suggest more examples. This is an extremely common YKTTW problem, because it's one of the ways tropes get sent to the TRS for overlap/similarity/confusion with other tropes.
And just for clarity, being the launcher of the trope does not grant Word of God powers over the article. This is a wiki, after all....
edited 8th Apr '11 8:47:26 AM by Stratadrake
An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.
Title? What Title?
I've been accused of making a change to a page in order to "win" an argument, something I consider underhanded and low. Tell me again how being rude makes people less likely to listen to you? My argument has also been said to be "based in a lie". Tell me again how I shouldn't be rude or people won't listen to me?
Or is calling someone else a liar not being rude, in your book?
Thank you, I know that. I wasn't claiming Word of God, I was claiming "intent of the founders", to use legal language. What is it with everyone assuming the worst? Whatever happened to people assuming good faith?
I notice everyone ignored my question: There are a lot of tropes that can be boiled down to "This trope is X situation, and these are the ramifications." that never see the TRS forums and won't ever. Why is this one causing you so much heartburn?
edited 8th Apr '11 11:53:53 AM by Worldmaker
Being in a Japanese-produced work is not enough of a difference to warrant its own trope.
The Other Troper
I know from personal experience that being rude, even in a justified response, will do this. So this is me giving you advice. Even if some are rude to you, it's really not a good idea to be rude in return.
Title? What Title?
Good thing that I wasn't, then.
Being in a Japanese-produced work is not enough of a difference to warrant its own trope.
Sounds like a Stock Phrase, right?
Eh, sorry. This is actually defined as the ramifications caused by a character being declared Legally Dead, when they're not.
This is a problem. What is the definition of this trope anyway?
At only 30+ wicks, here's my breakdown of usage:
Correct usage:
Reference to the Stock Phrase:
Ambiguous in context:
No context whatsoever:
Indexes:
I think my head just asploded:
edited 7th Apr '11 9:19:54 PM by Stratadrake
An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.