PeopleSitOnChairs, has minimal real use.: Hello

If Hello is only Just for Fun, then shouldn't this NOT be appearing as a listed trope on work pages? After all, the page is not for cataloging any actual trope; it isn't even an actual trope. It's Just for Fun.

edited 8th Apr '11 10:50:22 AM by SeanMurrayI

Then just remove it if you see it where it doesn't belong and it bugs you that much. That is one of the ways any wiki is supposed to work.

Yeah, it shouldn't be listed in any of these pages. It is not a trope and shouldn't be listed a such. Removing them.

(it should still be listed in Princess Bride, though, 'cause that is the joke)

^^But how is this page supposed to work?

If it's not supposed to be a trope, then what are we as a community going to do to prevent it from being used as a trope? Wicks, naturally, should be cleaned up. But should this page even have an example list of its own? It's not a trope, yet it's written up and gathers examples like one. I still say its status as a Just for Fun article is a poor excuse for letting something that amounts to People Sitting On Chairs get a free pass from the cutlist. Nothing else on the Just for Fun index is even anywhere near as general as this page is.

edited 8th Apr '11 11:34:38 AM by SeanMurrayI

I have a plan.

Whelp, back again. And thank you Sean Murray for pointing out the problem with this.

So basicly only reason we have to it exist is to make Princess Bride quote all blue entry. That is the only reason. Does this mean I can create page for, no, let me make an example. Quote from Godwin's Law

Informant: General, Italian forces have enteredEgypt.

See what I did there? Now, let's assume Have Entered is in Just for Fun namespace, nowhere else, with description "Someones have entered somewhere" with some random trivia about terms. With example from this thread, it must be allowed to be kept. It does no damage to wiki and it's Just for Fun.

Yet, I doubt anyone in this thread would accept it.

edited 9th Apr '11 8:18:37 AM by Mandemo

We could make it about those name tags that say "Hello". I think those are a sort of a trope when it comes to writing strange things on them.

^ You're talking about the ones that read Hello My Name Is, right? It would make a decent concept for a trope page but probably not with the name Hello, and variants with Hellow My Name Is may too closely resemble My Name Is Inigo Montoya. This is something that would be better to create separate from this with a distinct name all its own.

Anyway, the main issue here is that creating pages just to form a series of blue links that spell out a particular meme that some people enjoy is not why we have Just for Fun pages, and the fact that the page Hello was created only for this intended purpose should not be a valid defense for it. Heck, three of the four pages involved in this apparent meme aren't even Just for Fun pages but actual tropes, and they should be used specifically as tropes; there aren't many appropriate places to link three separate tropes together to form a bigger sentence then outside of page quotes.

In the end, we're left talking about a page that's simply about characters saying, "Hi," and that's neither a trope nor fun. At best, the page is something that sounds like it belongs on the Darth Wiki as a concept too stupid to actually have an appropriate place on the wiki.

edited 9th Apr '11 9:03:06 AM by SeanMurrayI

Indeed, by bone with this that only defence it has is Just for Fun namespace. That's it. It has no other reason why it haven't been cut yet. Of course, we coudl turn it into legimate greeting trope, but how?

Another problem that I have, is possible future. If this is allowed to remain on claims that "it's jsut for fun and to make all blue entry", what prevents new ones from popping up? Fuck is very common word, why not create a page for it and just link into it whenever someone uses it?

Then someoen comes and says "you can't do that!" he can jsut point here and say, "Yes I can."

Don't see the point in cutting. It's not like we don't have other silly pointless pages.

^ Having several "silly, pointless pages" isn't much of a reason to keep one of them on the wiki. This just means we have several pages that we can deem totally worthless to have around and treat as fodder for the cutlist. This Wiki isn't about pointless pages; it's about a catalog of concepts and occurrences in media and fiction, descriptions of the fictional works in which those same concepts and occurrences appear, and having fun. Pointlessness and lacking any real significance doesn't have a place in any of that.

Again, with this particular page, its intended purpose for creation has nothing to do with why Just for Fun pages exist in the first place and functions neither as a trope nor a Just for Fun page on its own space on the wiki.

edited 9th Apr '11 11:27:39 AM by SeanMurrayI

How does it hurt to have it around? Does it keep you up at night knowing there's a page that isn't useful on tvtropes? Do you cry yourself to sleep knowing that tvtropes is occasionally frivolous?

Again, Hello hurts this wiki by being a page of filler content on an insignificant occurrence that is not worth cataloging for a Blue Link that was solely created for a purpose that is irrelevant to how both Just for Fun and trope pages are intended to be used. It plays a role in the misuse of three actual tropes in strictly spelling out a memetic Catchphrase in all blue letters when they should only be linked to as tropes appearing in works or other tropes with similar or starkly contrasting themes.

edited 9th Apr '11 12:37:35 PM by SeanMurrayI

Filler doesn't hurt, it's a just for fun page and doesn't really need to actually be useful and you're going to have to prove that it causes real misuse in those other three tropes before making such a claim. So, again, I think your argument for removing it has no merit to it and seems to be merely an expression of your distaste for something you don't approve of on the wiki.

This is a page about cataloging characters who say, "Hi" or give any other kind of salutation. That's not fun; that's mundane. Even other Just for Fun pages deal with subjects of greater significance than that.

Even then, Just for Fun pages are not supposed to be linked to on work pages as tropes in works; this page, however, is so that would be misuse.

There are problems with this page.

You know, even if this page got cut, we could still make the line all blue by potholing an appropriate trope under "Hello".

I think I've worked it out, to Chelsea fans the word "Hello" is replaced by a headbutt, so everytime he sees it he gets a flash of pain across the forehead. No wonder he wants rid of it.

(caution post contains humour relevant to British football)

edited 9th Apr '11 12:47:44 PM by CrypticMirror

That was uncalled for and a very unimaginative insult, at that. My points made regarding the main topic of this discussion still stand, however.

edited 9th Apr '11 12:54:11 PM by SeanMurrayI

Again, that doesn't hurt the wiki. If Hello was taking up the space of something more useful, or people linked to it all the time you might have a point, but the page is almost entirely ignored and only around for the sake of a single joke. It's harmless.

edited 9th Apr '11 1:07:41 PM by Arha

The page has somehow brought over 600 people to the wiki and found its way to 100 pages around the wiki. I don't think that counts as being "almost entirely ignored". And again, "the sake of a single joke" doesn't merit the creation of a "Just for Fun" page on a People Sit On Chairs subject that is being misused by appearing on work pages as a trope. Surely, the misuse of this being listed as a trope in certain places should be cleaned up, at the very least.

A Blue Link isn't even needed to tell a joke, and as Dragon Quest Z pointed out, any existing Blue Link could be potholed in its place, anyway, provided that the link is relevant. We don't need to create a pointless page for just that one thing.

edited 9th Apr '11 1:16:43 PM by SeanMurrayI

Bringing 600 people to the wiki is a bad thing? I uh don't think it matters whether people were linked to a serious article or not. This still doesn't seem to be causing any real harm to me.

Edit: And a quick glance at the wicks shows that most of them are also from just for fun pages like G La Do S. Or stuff like WMG pages.

edited 9th Apr '11 1:23:17 PM by Arha

Holy crap, so it did. I didn't even think to look. In that case I have to say this should absolutely be left alone. It's a surprisingly powerful draw, and arguments against seem weak to say the least.

Sean, you just undercut your own "hurts the wiki" argument. It's brought over 600 people to the site. That's not hurting us, it's helping us.

And your position that it's just silliness and we should cut it for that reason alone could be equally well applied to every single other Just for Fun Page, the whole Haiku-Wiki, the whole WMG namespace, all of Sugar Wiki and Darth Wiki, and every single Self-Demonstrating article we have. Why should "Hello" be singled out for cutting?

edited 9th Apr '11 1:24:52 PM by Madrugada

I have to agree about the pointlessness of this page.

^^^ This can't just be left alone. If this is a Just for Fun page, then wicks should be checked for all inclusions among trope example lists and removed. If this is a trope, then it needs severe tweaking and redefining because it's People Sitting On Chairs. Something about this is going to need some fixing, at the very least.

^^ Because it's insignificant whereas everything everybody else wants to compare this to carries some significance. All other Just for Fun pages at least play along with some specific subject with some individual significance—Statler And Waldorf, Chekovs Gun, Forty Two, Earth, etc.

What is significant about "The general usage of a common English word as it appears in no particular contexts in fiction and media"? To me, that's purely People Sitting On Chairs.

edited 9th Apr '11 2:37:05 PM by SeanMurrayI