TTGL Syndrome?

a lot of things Gainax makes seems more like "parody" than "tribute" though. just look at Otaku No Video

Gao Gai Gar on the other hand, was pretty much a loving tribute to Shotaro Ishinomori

Did I mention Otaku No Video? At all? Or even allude to it? Gainax is not a monolithic entity.

And weren't you just talking about how GaoGaiGar is totally original and not a Spiritual Successor to anything?

edited 10th Feb '11 8:49:20 AM by Nyktos

No, I'm just saying that nearly everything Gainax makes has an intent to be snarky.

That's the whole point, the series is so absurd in it's writing it's impossible to take it seriously. That's pretty much the line between serious plot and parody right there.

You don't get it, do you, Clawshrimpy. You're not SUPPOSED to take TTGL seriously, and if you're trying to, you're Completely Missing The Point. TTGL is neither serious nor a parody, it's just a Super Robot comedy show with a dose of Testosterone Poisoning via Rule of Funny. TTGL is not awesome DESPITE breaking the Willing Suspension of Disbelief, it's awesome BECAUSE it breaks the Willing Suspension of Disbelief. Stop trying to make sense out of something that isn't supposed to make sense in the first place.

Furthermore, I agree with Iaculus that you're being biased about saying that Kamina's and Kittan's deaths were stupid. Kamina's death was NOT his fault (maybe you'd have a point if he was killed by a visible mech, but how was he supposed to know he'd get stabbed by a mech THROUGH THE FLOOR), and Kittan's death, no matter illogical what happened was, was still a Heroic Sacrifice that ACTUALLY WORKED. I understand what your problem is with Gundam, but I just don't get the hate you have for TTGL.

edited 10th Feb '11 9:14:46 AM by shiro_okami

I was able to watch Gao Gai Gar fine, it's a Super Robot show, but it had a plot one could take seriously. Sure, parts of it were outlandish but as far as the writing went, it was just fine.

Gurren Lagann just assumes you're just there to see explosions, boobs, and characters shouting all the time. and not there for a decent plot at all or care enough to analyze what is going on. I analyze everything I watch, even if doing so is "discouraged"

edited 10th Feb '11 9:32:57 AM by Clawshrimpy

Everything? Even comedies, children's cartoons, sitcoms, etc.? I just don't understand people who try to analyze and find a deeper meaning in something that obviously doesn't have one or wasn't meant to have one. It just seems stupid to me. If you always did that, how could you ever have fun watching anything?

I have fun when a show makes me think. I just fail to see the appeal of shows that only boast ACTION, Fanservice and comedy. with nothing else going for it.

For example, I really love Deus Ex . however, you will never get me to play a more "modern" FPS like Doom 3 or something, because, to me, Deus Ex was a better FPS game to me because I appreciated the detail in the plot. like now, people accuse me of missing the point of shooter games.

edited 10th Feb '11 9:49:53 AM by Clawshrimpy

itt, Clawshrimpy would like to share with everyone about how he's too smart to enjoy anything that doesn't live up to his high standards.

Well, that's fine if that's what you like. But you have to understand that other people have other preferences. It's not right to bash a work and say it's stupid just because it's doesn't belong to the genre YOU like or have anything that YOU want to see. I mean, I like stuff that makes me think, too, but that doesn't mean I can't turn my brain off, sit back, and relax when watching an ordinary anime or action movie. You can't judge different genres by the same standard.

edited 10th Feb '11 9:57:06 AM by shiro_okami

But, my point is Gao Gai Gar and Gurren Lagann are both Super Robot shows, therefore they are on the same playing field. it's just that one tries to tell a a pretty intriguing story with characters who have a bit more depth to them, and the other is filled with Fanservice and (oftentime extremely corny and out of place) comedy

to paraphrase. 'You shouldn't stop thinking just because the (movie) has started, Drama, Mystery, Suspense, it should have your mind going all the time.'

edited 10th Feb '11 10:04:01 AM by Clawshrimpy

You're Completely Missing The Point again. Actually, you missed both of them. By your description of Gao Gai Gar (I never got passed the first episode because I thought the theme song was Narm, but that's besides the point), it falls under drama, while TTGL is comedy. Therefore, by definition, even though both are Super Robot shows, they are two completely different types of show and should not be judged by the same standard.

Furthermore, to your quote I would say: What if there is no Drama, Mystery, or Suspense? You seriously think that every good work of fiction HAS to have those three things?

edited 10th Feb '11 10:13:31 AM by shiro_okami

What's the point of a show that only has one mood thoughout? that just seems boring.

Just being all happy go lucky the whole time jsut makes the whole experience flat. as does most of the villains being dangerous, not by being good villains with good plans, but just because Goodis Dumb is also a really hack-kneed thing to do, why not make the narrative flexible?

edited 10th Feb '11 10:18:10 AM by Clawshrimpy

Hold on, since when did TTGL have only one mood throughout? As I mentioned earlier, the series only comes close to pure comedy in the first arc, whilst the third even approaches actual bleakness (along with a nice little acknowledgement that Hot-Blooded Idiot Hero revolutionaries don't always make for the best government).

Are you sure you even watched this show?

edited 10th Feb '11 10:19:18 AM by Iaculus

What does that have anything to do with what I just said? Explanation please.

edited 10th Feb '11 10:20:18 AM by shiro_okami

What little drama there is is kinda stpped because they just scream more and they win. outside of a few deaths, they walk away from the final fight, with no heavy price of victory. and being Idiot Hero is actually what makes the plot go apprently, so they were never in any real danger of losing, Spiral Power being infinite after all.

edited 10th Feb '11 10:24:04 AM by Clawshrimpy

And a few deaths isn't a heavy price? What did you want to happen?

edited 10th Feb '11 10:28:20 AM by shiro_okami

Death isn't the same thing as losing a battle. and even as members of the Gurren Brigade dropped like flies, it never phased them, so they were never in any real danger. especially since said dead characters jumped at the chances to throw their lives away, so the deaths never had any impact.

edited 10th Feb '11 10:29:15 AM by Clawshrimpy

They didn't jump at the chance to die, they just did what they had to do to ensure the safety of others. You're saying that dying without angsting about it means that the death has no meaning and whatever killed you isn't dangerous? What sort of Insane Troll Logic is that? And you're saying that you actually wanted them to lose?

edited 10th Feb '11 10:32:37 AM by shiro_okami

I might point out that the Spiral offering limitless power was a central aspect of the narrative. Much was focused on both the villains' attempts to contain it, and the heroes' eventual understanding that when you're without limit, the only one who can regulate you is yourself. Hence Simon's retreat from society, and eventual refusal to use Spiral Energy to fix all his problems once his life was no longer on the line. In TTGL, courage and the power of hot blood can get you anywhere... but the question is, do you want to go there?

Also, the suggestion that the good guys won without sacrifice is so patently ridiculous I'm not sure I even need to address it. You really weren't paying attention, were you?

Yes. I wanted those overconfident arrogant idiots to lose and lose hard. by that point I hated the cast so much I wanted to show to pull a Be Invoked and have Spiral Nemesis actually happen. not only were they overconfident idiots, they seemed so....perfect? they didn't seem to have to.... retreat, or come up with a different plan very often.

A few people died (most of which were Red Shirt characters), hardly a sizable cost of victory, it's not like the Anti-Spiral blew up a planet or forced most of the heroes to be trapped in space or anything.

edited 10th Feb '11 10:47:54 AM by Clawshrimpy

In other words, you wanted it to end like Gao Gai Gar.

Clawshrimpy, I think you are a rare case of out-of-universe Wrong Genre Savvy. Did you miss the point that their Applied Phlebotinum RAN on overconfident arrogance? And any victory can hardly be called perfect if people on your side die. The end of TTGL is nowhere near as bad as the end of Gundam SEED Destiny. THAT was a perfect victory.

edited 10th Feb '11 11:01:21 AM by shiro_okami

yeah, but that's part of the problem. DO I really have to bring out the G-Stone comparison again?

Again, most of the people who died in TTGL were mooks. all but 3 named characters died, and 2 of which were written off as not a big deal and they kept on trucking. Heck, one of them wasn't even technically a death but a plot resolution.

edited 10th Feb '11 11:06:38 AM by Clawshrimpy

Ultimately, in fact, I'd say that in some ways, refusing to bring back Nia was actually a bigger victory for humanity than beating the Anti-Spiral. For the first time in the story's history, we saw someone reject the prescriptivist arrogance endemic to Spiral-users, the same arrogance that had lead to the tyranny of Lordgenome and the Anti-Spirals, and could have eventually led to the end of the universe itself through the Spiral Nemesis (for the record, I don't think the AS were right - the increasingly draconian measures they were taking to regulate Spiral Energy were pushing the universe into a Lensman Arms Race that could only end one way). Simon's true victory was in understanding that simply forcing things to happen your way is not a viable long-term strategy - eventually, you have to step back and let the world adapt around you.

edited 10th Feb '11 11:08:37 AM by Iaculus

and that's exactly my point, so really, Nia's "death" wasn't much of a death. so only two named characters died. one of which gloated on an enemy ship instead of falling back to where his other allies were, and the other charged head first into a black hole.

... huh? How does that relate to your point? And how does throwing away your one true love for the sake of humanity and the universe as a whole make it any less of a personal sacrifice?

And we've already covered what you're getting wrong about Kittan. As for Kamina, I might add that even the headfirst charge was somewhat necessary - if Simon didn't activate the Dai-Gurren right then, they were all screwed. As shiro mentioned, too, his death came from an angle he couldn't have predicted even if he'd been on his guard when the battleship came online.

edited 10th Feb '11 11:34:12 AM by Iaculus